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and good evening folks you're listening

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to arcane radio

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i'm sean the fork chop forker joined

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tonight by

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launch strickler the every man over at

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phantoms and monsters

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and our good friend butch watkowski

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who's out there chasing the pennsylvania

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lichen

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and tonight guys we're back after

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missing a week we apologize for that

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but we'll be joined by nick redfearn uh

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later on in the show

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guys good to be here with you this week

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and uh

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just nice to be with you as

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yeah always calling from the wild and

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wooly pennsylvania

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i'm telling you it's been something the

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weather here of course lives up to its

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pennsylvania reputation

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it absolutely did if we woke up this

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morning and again as i

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tend to be known to say from time to

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time

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if you see a pair of testicles floating

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around out there somewhere bring them

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back

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it was so cold this morning

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like i haven't went to bed last night it

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was pretty nice got up this morning and

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wow it's like waking up in a meat locker

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yeah i think you didn't cover it if you

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can cover your garden up last night

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you're screwed

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it was 30 30 here this morning

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yeah it was around 20 i checked 29.

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because i woke up i thought somebody

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left the window and i saw christ

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i couldn't believe how damn cold it was

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but

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i think oh my god 29 degrees this

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morning myself it was pretty chilly

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but you know and of course last week we

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had some really bad storms come up this

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way

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a lot of wind and rain that tore through

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pennsylvania and of course

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some of the areas butch and i were just

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at the week before flooded out

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part of the road gone one of the bridges

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gone so it was a

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rough weekend for people in pennsylvania

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so guys i'm just glad we could all be

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together tonight all of us safe and

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sound

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as we get in to talk about some very

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strange things

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going on in our world yeah nick's coming

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on the night he uh he actually has

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two books out he had uh the woman in

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black

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which he put out a couple months ago

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then

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he's got a another book called the

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monster book which

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is pretty wild i mean there's a lot of

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stuff in there i never heard about but i

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think we're going to be talking mostly

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about the uh

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about the women in black uh person

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pretty wild things in that book a lot of

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stuff i didn't know about

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yeah i mean i haven't had a chance to

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read it yet i've we've gotten

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so many books long the last few weeks

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it's it's unreal of course i'm reading

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ryan sprague's uh somewhere in the skies

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which is really good

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if you folks get a chance to pick that

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up it's real well worth the read

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it's it's my speed i really enjoy it

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some great stories in there

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he does it a lot of justice and it just

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starts off well it's got a good hook to

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it and i think

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the listeners will like it we have ryan

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coming on of course he's

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the co-host of into the fray our good

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friend shannon legrow and those folks

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sam sheeran

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wonderful people over there uh it's a

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good book and i hope you all go and buy

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it somewhere in the skies.com

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check it out and of course this morning

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i got a message from my buddy seth

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breedlove

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i got a screener of boggy creek monster

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and i'm telling you guys

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this it looks beautiful it sounds

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great i would like uh lyle blackburn to

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narrate my dreams if that's possible

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like it's oh he did the narration he did

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the narration it's superbly done

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it looks good it feels great and it it's

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uh i wish it was longer but it just

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takes you in

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well i hope i can get a get a copy

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though what channel we'll see we can

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arrange for you we just uh yeah we just

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booked lyle for uh

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in january he's got a um

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it it's actually a handbook but it's a

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magazine

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putting it out it's

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monstro bizarro and it's got

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loud stories with nick redfearn and uh

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david weatherly and others i think uh

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linda's in there as well

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uh i ordered my copy but if you get it

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you gotta get it through reward magazine

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so

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uh lyle told me it's a limited edition

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but it looks like it's going to be

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pretty neat so a lot we'll be doing this

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as well

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after the beginning of the year uh

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january we're starting to line a lot of

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people up

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yep we'll be back after a small break in

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the holidays which we're still kind of

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talking about here

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programming note is that a lot of our

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back archive shows

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are saving to our spreaker page i'm

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going to have to get

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that all situated we get them uploaded

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to our podbean

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and for those folks that listen on

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stitcher or itunes get them out to you

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guys

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in a timely fashion e.t i'd like to have

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them out by the end of day friday so

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bear with me as i work through that

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backlog

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also saturday i'm recording a podcast

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with a couple friends of mine dave

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groves

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matt adams maz adams not matt adams

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maz adams uh the nocturnal journal

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uh which is gonna be a irregular podcast

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we're just getting together and talk

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about uh bigfoot

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uh so we'll see how i can foster those

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guys along and get them headed off in

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the right direction

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the nocturnal journal coming to a

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podcatcher near you

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what do you got lon well last last

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thursday i would uh

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did a show with uh tim beckley and tim

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schwartz

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um kind of returned the favor of them

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him coming on my

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art show and uh that was pretty wild we

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were talking about these creepy clowns

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and cryptids and uh

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it turned out to be a pretty interesting

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show

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yeah a lot of a lot of

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you can attest to it there was some

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so i i uh if you get a chance it's it's

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on the

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kill kcr radio out of uh las vegas i'm

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pretty sure

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you just put it in the google and google

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and get the link

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and uh it's in their archives but uh

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it's on youtube matter of fact i

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listened to it the other day it's

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pretty wild so yeah i've got uh

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you know i've got some pretty good stuff

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this week i'm

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uh oh i do want to say thanks to david

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weatherly he uh put a link up today

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uh for the pennsylvania dogman upright

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k9

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shout out for that and uh

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folks get a chance i've got the link on

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the web on

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facebook and it's on the website on

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fans of blogs like um

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for the map so you know we're keeping a

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record of uh

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all the historical and new sightings of

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dogman upright k-9 where

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whatever you can is caned uh in the

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state of pennsylvania

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and some of the surrounding states

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within 50 miles of the pennsylvania line

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so

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you know take a look at that um

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i got um i got some

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actually canine upright canine storage

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to talk about matter of fact

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and uh this first was a black dog man

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encounter in northern indiana

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uh the gentleman by the name of mickey

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who now lives in kentucky was talking

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about

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an event he had when he was a kid

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instead in 1972 we lived in a town in

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northern indiana

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in the muncie area it was a real small

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town i was nine years old my mom came

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and whipped me up

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like at two o'clock in the morning said

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uh there was this black creature on our

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front porch

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and it was about the size of an ape it

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had a snout like a dog and it would

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scream these blood-curdling screams

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and that would start this and then it

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would scream

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um i don't know if you know anything

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about [\h__\h] hounds

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but my father always had cooling downs

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and he

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uh he said he was on the third shift so

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he wasn't here

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he said an old coonhound is not afraid

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of anything he said they were cowering

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in a box when this thing would sit there

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they wouldn't even come out so he said

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my mother got me up because i was the

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oldest of six

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kids uh we were watching it through the

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front door

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it wasn't making any aggressive news it

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was just making those screams and crazy

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noises

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but she went and got the pistol and she

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said i'm not

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i'm not gonna bother unless it tries to

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come in the house so

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after about two hours she she

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finally went and got a polaroid and

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uh you know one of the instant polaroids

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and

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up against the window

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and snapped the pitcher now when the

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flash went off this thing

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shot off all the wall over the rail

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about eight foot into the front yard

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uh we had the light on and uh it landed

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on all fours

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and took off she said it was the fastest

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he said it was the fastest thing i've

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ever seen

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now i don't know

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what the hell this was in fact i wonder

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if they even got a picture

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and if they did that would that would be

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quite interesting to see because i don't

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know if anybody's got a

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real decent picture of this thing um

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and it doesn't sound like a dog man well

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maybe a dog man because you know it's an

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old force it

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probably wasn't an upright canine uh

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or anything like we've been seeing or

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getting reports on

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around here um i don't know what to

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what do you think butch well

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uh you know the screaming um but i found

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one report

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on the uh on the map in the interactive

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map

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which was up in sean's area and then uh

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you know the couple things we had up in

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00:10:09,430 --> 00:10:06,480
sean's area a week before last

282
00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:09,440
uh same thing so i wonder if our our

283
00:10:14,710 --> 00:10:11,200
friend out there is getting um

284
00:10:18,310 --> 00:10:14,720
vocal i don't know

285
00:10:19,590 --> 00:10:18,320
um i you know i have we don't think i

286
00:10:22,870 --> 00:10:19,600
don't think we've had any

287
00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:22,880
recent reports of any sounds this thing

288
00:10:25,670 --> 00:10:24,720
is made as far as you know screams and

289
00:10:27,829 --> 00:10:25,680
stuff

290
00:10:28,870 --> 00:10:27,839
no i don't recall any that you shared

291
00:10:32,230 --> 00:10:28,880
with me

292
00:10:34,389 --> 00:10:32,240
no i don't think so no

293
00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:34,399
i mean they do seem aggressive now this

294
00:10:39,430 --> 00:10:36,720
thing wasn't even aggressive

295
00:10:39,829 --> 00:10:39,440
but uh you know the ones up here in pa

296
00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:39,839
they

297
00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:43,600
aggression or

298
00:10:48,069 --> 00:10:46,560
our territorial is put that way don't

299
00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:48,079
want anything coming anything coming

300
00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:50,480
near it

301
00:10:53,990 --> 00:10:53,040
i don't know that that's an interesting

302
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:54,000
one

303
00:10:56,710 --> 00:10:55,440
they definitely extend their ground they

304
00:10:57,670 --> 00:10:56,720
don't they don't walk away they don't

305
00:11:01,430 --> 00:10:57,680
run

306
00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:01,440
no no no they don't

307
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:05,920
um my buddy jamie came up with

308
00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:10,880
this uh story he found on youtube

309
00:11:15,590 --> 00:11:14,000
and uh it's pretty it's

310
00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:15,600
pretty weird i don't know what this

311
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:17,920
thing was but

312
00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:21,360
we got possibly official cover-up on

313
00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:22,000
this thing

314
00:11:26,949 --> 00:11:25,440
uh this happened in 1998 a retired

315
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:26,959
forestry official had a strange

316
00:11:33,509 --> 00:11:29,440
encounter in the apalachicola

317
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:33,519
national forest now he said it was 1998

318
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:35,680
when he was 37 years old he had been

319
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:37,519
working with the forest department for

320
00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:39,040
12 years

321
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:40,160
she said there was a fire in the

322
00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:42,880
apalachicola national forest

323
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:46,640
that summer the bradwell bay area was on

324
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:48,959
fire when all this happened

325
00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:50,800
he said the fire was raging pretty bad

326
00:11:54,790 --> 00:11:52,800
at that point

327
00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:54,800
we didn't know if we could ever get it

328
00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:56,720
out that morning i reported to the

329
00:11:59,590 --> 00:11:58,880
command center on hill and guard station

330
00:12:02,150 --> 00:11:59,600
road

331
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:02,160
to get briefed on what i would be doing

332
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:03,440
that day

333
00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:04,880
so me and another guy were given the

334
00:12:08,150 --> 00:12:06,800
task of driving around looking for

335
00:12:12,150 --> 00:12:08,160
animals along the road of

336
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:12,160
bradwell bay area animals would make it

337
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:15,040
to the road and usually fall out if they

338
00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:16,880
were injured or had a real bad smoke

339
00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:18,320
inhalation

340
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:20,240
our job was to pick them up and take

341
00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:22,720
them to the vets at the command center

342
00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:24,720
the vets would treat them and on some

343
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:26,560
occasions euthanized the ones that

344
00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:28,079
wouldn't make it

345
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:30,160
so we were driving along the area

346
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:32,399
heading south doing about 45 mile an

347
00:12:34,870 --> 00:12:33,279
hour

348
00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:34,880
and that was faster than i should have

349
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:37,440
been driving i was talking to my partner

350
00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:39,680
and didn't realize how fast i was going

351
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,360
now all of a sudden

352
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:43,600
we saw a black figure run out of the

353
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:46,000
woods on all fours

354
00:12:49,990 --> 00:12:48,959
it ran right underneath my driver's side

355
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:50,000
tire

356
00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:52,000
i hit the animal with both the front and

357
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:53,360
back tires

358
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:57,120
i was driving a 95 dodge ram 4x4

359
00:13:02,069 --> 00:12:59,920
so i knew at that speed i had killed it

360
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:02,079
immediately we thought it was a bear

361
00:13:06,790 --> 00:13:04,240
so we got out to pick the bear up and

362
00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:06,800
put it in the truck upon further

363
00:13:11,990 --> 00:13:09,120
investigation we realized

364
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:12,000
what i hit was not a bear at all it was

365
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:13,839
a creature that neither one of us had

366
00:13:18,629 --> 00:13:15,200
ever seen

367
00:13:19,990 --> 00:13:18,639
was about six foot tall he had legs

368
00:13:23,110 --> 00:13:20,000
kneecaps and feet

369
00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:23,120
just like me and you the arms hung

370
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:26,560
to about the knee one arm

371
00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:29,760
a matter of fact was down by its knee

372
00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:32,800
the other one was up over its head i had

373
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:34,320
run the creature

374
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:36,720
over under the underarm across the

375
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:37,920
shoulder blade

376
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:39,440
and under the back of its neck the

377
00:13:44,870 --> 00:13:41,760
creature was covered in hair

378
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:44,880
uh about three to five inches long on

379
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:47,120
the arm legs and head

380
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:49,440
the hair on the back ribs and chest was

381
00:13:53,189 --> 00:13:50,639
much shorter

382
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:53,199
the muscle definition on this animal was

383
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:54,880
phenomenal

384
00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:56,959
it looked like a prize fighter or one of

385
00:14:02,230 --> 00:14:00,000
those guys you see on ufc

386
00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:02,240
we flipped the animal over the jaw was

387
00:14:04,790 --> 00:14:03,920
broken from where i had hit it with the

388
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:04,800
truck

389
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:08,320
now i could see through it through

390
00:14:12,389 --> 00:14:11,040
it had a protruding excuse me protruding

391
00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:12,399
snout

392
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:15,519
much like that of a baboon or what you

393
00:14:19,269 --> 00:14:16,320
would

394
00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:19,279
a werewolf looks like it had eyes just

395
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:19,600
like

396
00:14:27,509 --> 00:14:24,720
chimpanzee

397
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:27,519
now we quickly radioed into the command

398
00:14:32,790 --> 00:14:28,560
center

399
00:14:34,710 --> 00:14:32,800
and they sent two uh fwc officials out

400
00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:34,720
to our location

401
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:37,600
within about 15 minutes the fwc

402
00:14:42,389 --> 00:14:40,160
officials arrived

403
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:42,399
and they told us that they had never

404
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:44,240
seen anything like it

405
00:14:49,030 --> 00:14:46,720
so we pi we all picked the animal up and

406
00:14:50,949 --> 00:14:49,040
loaded into the back of the truck

407
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:50,959
the animal weighed about three to four

408
00:14:54,069 --> 00:14:53,040
hundred pounds which dead weight is a

409
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:54,079
lot

410
00:14:57,430 --> 00:14:56,160
they told us they would figure out what

411
00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:57,440
it was and let us

412
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:01,120
know so we had been contacted by the

413
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:02,639
command center at that point and they

414
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:03,760
told us to come

415
00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:06,320
on back and make a statement about what

416
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:08,240
we saw

417
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:10,000
so we showed up at the command center

418
00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:11,760
and immediately we were brought back to

419
00:15:16,949 --> 00:15:13,360
a room

420
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:16,959
to where we fill out an incident report

421
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:18,639
we were about 10 minutes into the

422
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:20,639
incident report when we were asked to

423
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:21,760
stop

424
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:23,920
and wait and that there would be some

425
00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:26,720
people coming to see us

426
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:29,440
within 30 to 40 minutes two government

427
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:31,360
officials showed up

428
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:33,920
they walked us out to the vehicle they

429
00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:34,880
were asking

430
00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:38,240
where we ran over to the thing we told

431
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:38,800
them

432
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:40,959
where it was and so they examined the

433
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:42,000
area

434
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:44,639
the truck had no damage there was a

435
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:46,560
black steel bumper on the front the

436
00:15:51,189 --> 00:15:48,240
animal hit the front of that

437
00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:51,199
and the tires took less of the took care

438
00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:52,480
of the rest

439
00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:54,240
there was really nothing on the truck

440
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:56,720
except for the undercarriage

441
00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:59,040
there was some there was some blood and

442
00:16:02,150 --> 00:16:00,880
hair the officials collected the blood

443
00:16:04,949 --> 00:16:02,160
and air samples

444
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:04,959
and put them away next they asked us if

445
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:05,600
we would

446
00:16:10,389 --> 00:16:08,560
get into the vehicle they amen and take

447
00:16:14,710 --> 00:16:10,399
them to the location

448
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:14,720
where we had ran them over so we com

449
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:16,800
we complied and got into the vehicle and

450
00:16:20,829 --> 00:16:18,480
left with the gentleman

451
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:20,839
it was rather quiet ride back to the

452
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:22,079
spot

453
00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:24,160
they didn't say much at all except for a

454
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:26,800
couple exchanges with each other

455
00:16:30,069 --> 00:16:28,800
we showed up at the spot and walking

456
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:30,079
through what happened

457
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:31,839
then all of a sudden one of the guys i

458
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:33,519
guess the guy in charge turned and

459
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:34,560
looked at us

460
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:37,279
and said congratulations fellas you ran

461
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:38,639
over a bear

462
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:40,880
i said sir but this is no bear that we

463
00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:43,360
hit he quickly interrupted me with

464
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:47,120
you don't understand you ran over a bear

465
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:50,160
he then said that every time

466
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:52,959
i tell any that every time i tell anyone

467
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:53,519
about it

468
00:16:59,749 --> 00:16:57,279
i ran over a bear i was to never speak a

469
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:59,759
word about what we actually hit

470
00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:01,519
that i could face charges the whole

471
00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:04,160
retirement could go away

472
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:05,839
they said i would lose my job and that

473
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:07,520
they would slander me and make me look

474
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:08,880
like a fool

475
00:17:13,270 --> 00:17:11,280
so i looked at my partner and we had no

476
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:13,280
other choice but to comply

477
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:15,439
now on the ride back it kind of struck

478
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:16,880
me as i that this was an

479
00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:19,600
actual government cover-up they knew

480
00:17:23,909 --> 00:17:21,679
what this thing was

481
00:17:26,069 --> 00:17:23,919
that we had hit they had seen them

482
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:26,079
before and now they were in possession

483
00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:27,360
of a body

484
00:17:31,350 --> 00:17:30,080
for some reason they didn't want anyone

485
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:31,360
to know

486
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:33,520
that they were going to great lengths to

487
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:35,200
keep this under wraps

488
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:37,919
the main reason i'm telling my story is

489
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:39,120
i'm hoping

490
00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:41,120
one of the other three people my partner

491
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:42,880
and you two fwc

492
00:17:47,510 --> 00:17:45,360
officials will come forward i figure

493
00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:47,520
it's a lot harder to silence four people

494
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:48,320
than just

495
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:50,640
one people need to know that these

496
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:52,000
things are out there

497
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:59,110
now i don't know what this was ahead

498
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:00,960
you know apalachicola the first thing i

499
00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:03,919
thought was well maybe it was a skunky

500
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:07,360
it could be that's what area yeah

501
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:12,400
uh but appalachian is up on the um

502
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:14,720
that's up in the panhandle area isn't it

503
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:16,400
near tallahassee

504
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:20,240
i think it is so that's northern

505
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:24,000
florida so um i don't know

506
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:28,320
i i don't know you know

507
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:30,640
it does sound talking about the snout

508
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:33,440
and everything it does sound like

509
00:18:37,590 --> 00:18:36,000
and he mentioned werewolf sounds like

510
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:37,600
the descriptions

511
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:40,880
of these weird werewolf canins that we

512
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:43,120
hear about every once in a while

513
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:45,440
i don't know you know it's interesting

514
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:49,830
the government guys came out on this i

515
00:19:01,430 --> 00:18:57,510
as far as dog man or anything other than

516
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:01,440
possibly a bigfoot you know as far as

517
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:04,559
doing a cover-up now this was 98

518
00:19:10,789 --> 00:19:07,360
so i don't know i mean that that's

519
00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:10,799
that's an interesting story

520
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:15,039
well it's it happens in an area in

521
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:19,120
the you know that panhandle-esque

522
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:22,000
kind of area into georgia where there's

523
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:23,440
a lot of sightings in that in that

524
00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:24,000
particular

525
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:27,039
region oh yeah creatures that kind of

526
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:28,240
fit that description

527
00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:30,559
you know so well i i don't know what he

528
00:19:33,870 --> 00:19:32,000
hit but

529
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:33,880
yeah i you know i looked at the

530
00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:35,280
apalachicola

531
00:19:40,310 --> 00:19:38,480
some the area shots and stuff i mean it

532
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:40,320
is a swampy area too i mean

533
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:44,400
there's a lot of swamp in there so um

534
00:19:48,870 --> 00:19:46,799
i mean it's ripe for either one of the

535
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:48,880
creatures it would be a canid

536
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:52,320
or a swamp ape or

537
00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:56,080
i mean even skunk ape or even a bigfoot

538
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:57,919
you know i don't know i really don't

539
00:20:02,789 --> 00:19:59,440
know but i'm telling you that's

540
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:02,799
that's a strange story the description i

541
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:04,880
mean it was a great description

542
00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:09,350
he had a picture of it i mean or

543
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:18,149
it didn't stick around or anything like

544
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:20,159
it just kind of

545
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:25,360
he hit it yeah i mean he must have um

546
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:27,200
i mean he must use for me as far as

547
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:29,120
killing it yeah

548
00:20:32,549 --> 00:20:31,600
yeah apparently he uh he hit it pretty

549
00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:32,559
good

550
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:34,480
it got up underneath the wheel well

551
00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:35,600
anything even a

552
00:20:41,110 --> 00:20:38,720
person getting it like that would

553
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:41,120
you know well i hit a deer once while it

554
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:41,760
hit me

555
00:20:51,029 --> 00:20:48,549
it hit my rear view it hit my driver's

556
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:51,039
mirror hit my quarter panel went under

557
00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:52,240
my tire

558
00:20:58,470 --> 00:20:55,520
and it got back up oh yeah

559
00:21:00,710 --> 00:20:58,480
in the road so i mean it was quite these

560
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:00,720
things can take a pounding

561
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:04,559
yeah they really can i had a dear doe

562
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:07,440
that uh actually this was in baltimore

563
00:21:11,029 --> 00:21:08,559
city

564
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:11,039
he came across uh he came across the

565
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:12,480
road

566
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:16,240
and uh he landed up on my hood

567
00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:19,679
into my windshield didn't crack it but

568
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:22,400
i mean he had hair all over the place he

569
00:21:26,230 --> 00:21:23,280
put a hell of a

570
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:26,240
dent in my quarter panel just bounced

571
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:29,200
off and kept on running

572
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:32,080
it's interesting my daughter hit one the

573
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:33,360
other night

574
00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:35,120
and same thing two thousand dollars

575
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:36,720
worth of damage on the front of the car

576
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:37,280
and the

577
00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:39,120
dough just bounced off and ran away yeah

578
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:40,480
i did twenty two hundred dollars for the

579
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:41,760
damage to my van

580
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:44,080
yeah yeah so those things can take a

581
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:45,200
pounding i mean this is

582
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:47,760
much more you know robust yeah a

583
00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:48,880
creature

584
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:50,480
what he thinks and how he thinks might

585
00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:51,919
have hit it might not actually have done

586
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:53,840
much to it besides either injure it

587
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:56,960
or yeah you know well it was a four by

588
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:58,000
four so i had a high

589
00:22:01,350 --> 00:22:00,400
wheelbase on it so it probably got under

590
00:22:02,950 --> 00:22:01,360
anything just

591
00:22:05,909 --> 00:22:02,960
i mean he hit it with two tires he must

592
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:05,919
have really crushed something

593
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:08,559
i mean now did it it didn't go anywhere

594
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:11,120
after that or did he not stop

595
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:14,640
yeah it did yeah he must have hit it

596
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:15,039
right

597
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:16,480
makes you wonder why he didn't take any

598
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:18,640
pictures of it or anything

599
00:22:22,230 --> 00:22:20,720
i don't i don't know i mean i hit

600
00:22:24,149 --> 00:22:22,240
something like that i mean

601
00:22:25,590 --> 00:22:24,159
i know probably didn't have that kind of

602
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:25,600
equipment yeah i didn't have a camera

603
00:22:29,510 --> 00:22:26,320
then

604
00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:29,520
yeah did he call anybody he didn't well

605
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:30,880
he called the fwc

606
00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:34,159
which is florida wildlife they came out

607
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:35,360
and they didn't know what the hell it

608
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:37,200
was then all of a sudden now

609
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:39,360
the feds come walking you know coming

610
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:40,880
out there

611
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:43,440
i mean who who alarmed the feds about it

612
00:22:46,390 --> 00:22:45,120
i lost some of it when you cut in and

613
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:46,400
out a little bit that's why i

614
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:48,559
was like cutting it out no that's all

615
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:49,600
right it's

616
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:51,440
you know technology i don't wonder why i

617
00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:52,799
was cutting out

618
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:54,400
it's because you're telling the story

619
00:22:58,950 --> 00:22:56,720
and the feds don't want it what happens

620
00:23:00,390 --> 00:22:58,960
that's my story and i'm sticking to it

621
00:23:02,950 --> 00:23:00,400
but

622
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:02,960
i mean in all seriousness i mean you'd

623
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:04,159
wonder why he just wouldn't call the

624
00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:08,549
well i was out in the middle on the

625
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:10,320
boonies so

626
00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:11,919
i mean he had you know since he was a

627
00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:13,600
forest ranger he had to call

628
00:23:18,789 --> 00:23:16,960
federal i mean uh florida wildlife

629
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:18,799
that's probably what they do something

630
00:23:21,909 --> 00:23:20,480
like that

631
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:21,919
i don't know what the deal is i don't

632
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:23,120
know how they do it down there in

633
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:24,640
pennsylvania i think

634
00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:27,120
it's pretty well the same thing i think

635
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:27,919
uh

636
00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:30,640
pennsylvania game commission gets first

637
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:32,240
cracking like that

638
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:35,120
yeah i don't know when i was in ohio i

639
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:36,720
called the

640
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:38,640
ohio highway patrol and they sent an

641
00:23:42,149 --> 00:23:40,799
officer out and he executed there along

642
00:23:45,190 --> 00:23:42,159
the side of the road

643
00:23:48,149 --> 00:23:45,200
yeah yeah it's funny he was this big guy

644
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:48,159
and he uh was really menacing looking

645
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:48,720
the

646
00:23:54,789 --> 00:23:53,360
points at me and ray

647
00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:54,799
and then pulls his gun out and shoots

648
00:23:58,149 --> 00:23:57,039
the deer holsters his gun and he walks

649
00:24:01,190 --> 00:23:58,159
towards us

650
00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:01,200
he's this real big guy he's like you

651
00:24:07,029 --> 00:24:04,960
guys okay he had this really high

652
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:07,039
i took everything i could to not laugh

653
00:24:11,269 --> 00:24:08,640
at him but big guy

654
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:11,279
in this really high-pitched voice but uh

655
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:12,720
yeah i don't know i just asked these

656
00:24:17,110 --> 00:24:13,760
questions because

657
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:17,120
yeah yeah i mean it's a strange story

658
00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:19,039
yeah i mean you don't get emotionally

659
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:20,720
invested into this stuff i mean you get

660
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:21,679
the

661
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:28,400
but you know that being said sometimes

662
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:29,600
with these stories you just don't know

663
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:31,600
as much as i'd like to believe

664
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:33,840
that this is what happened you know why

665
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:35,440
don't we ever get any proof from this

666
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:36,480
kind of stuff guys

667
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,480
like i don't know that's that's it

668
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:42,880
well i'll tell you this runs in front of

669
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:44,559
my can i hit it

670
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:46,640
guaranteed it'll be in the truck yeah

671
00:24:50,789 --> 00:24:47,600
yeah you're gonna throw the

672
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:50,799
damn thing in the van yeah right

673
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:51,760
gonna have a whole harry and the

674
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:54,400
hendersons thing going on there yes sir

675
00:24:58,470 --> 00:24:56,080
going down the street with a big foot

676
00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:58,480
strapped to the top of his car

677
00:25:03,909 --> 00:25:01,600
speaking of likens and dogman

678
00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:03,919
real quick before we bring nick on i had

679
00:25:08,789 --> 00:25:05,520
a um

680
00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:08,799
i posted a story from our friend jc and

681
00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:09,440
his

682
00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:13,279
they've been

683
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:18,320
up there investigating uh

684
00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:21,120
up there investigating the uh the like

685
00:25:25,269 --> 00:25:22,000
and

686
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:25,279
uh

687
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:26,559
and i'm not gonna go into everything

688
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:28,400
right now but it's it's posted

689
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:31,840
on the uh on the website on the blog

690
00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:35,600
so and the story is uh 41 hours

691
00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:39,200
in liking land so if you

692
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:41,760
get a chance good look at that where's

693
00:25:45,029 --> 00:25:43,200
this at now

694
00:25:48,149 --> 00:25:45,039
it's on the blog on the blog okay i'll

695
00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:51,990
yeah it's uh it's pretty interesting

696
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:53,120
they

697
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:56,240
there's a video i got a link to the

698
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:57,360
video

699
00:26:01,909 --> 00:26:00,320
they had some they had a confrontation

700
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:01,919
uh it's hard to see

701
00:26:06,789 --> 00:26:05,520
whatever this was they uh they did

702
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:06,799
confront but

703
00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:10,320
it seems to have been a bigfoot uh

704
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:12,960
the story is this this large piece of

705
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:14,480
land

706
00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:17,200
in in northern minnesota is owned by a

707
00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:21,039
gentleman by the name of ron shaw and uh

708
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:24,320
it seems that they've got some

709
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:27,840
uh battle between bigfoot and

710
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:30,880
lichen in this area they're kind of the

711
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:32,480
dispute of the areas

712
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:35,520
it's uh they got bird beast on saint on

713
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:36,960
the same

714
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:45,830
and of course jc comes up some pretty

715
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:52,470
what were you saying butch small

716
00:27:02,070 --> 00:26:54,559
territorial dispute

717
00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:04,789
i'm gonna have to check it out on the uh

718
00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:06,159
on the blog

719
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:07,840
uh i want to get up to date on this

720
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:09,360
story but in a few moments we're going

721
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:11,039
to have nick redford on the program and

722
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:12,240
of course folks

723
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:14,799
most of you know who nick redfern is uh

724
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:16,400
if you don't

725
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:19,760
we got a quick little bio here this week

726
00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:20,000
we

727
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:25,520
author nick redford to arcane radio

728
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:26,880
nick is a full-time author and

729
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:28,799
journalist specializing in a wide range

730
00:27:33,909 --> 00:27:31,279
of unsolved mysteries including bigfoot

731
00:27:35,909 --> 00:27:33,919
the loch ness monster ufo sightings

732
00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:35,919
government conspiracies alien abductions

733
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:37,919
and paranormal phenomena

734
00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:39,919
redfern travels and lectures extensively

735
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:41,600
around the world he has appeared on

736
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:43,440
numerous television shows including the

737
00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:44,640
history channels

738
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:48,080
ancient aliens monster quest ufo

739
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:50,159
hunters national geographics the truth

740
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:51,440
about ufos

741
00:27:55,350 --> 00:27:54,240
paranatural and sci-fi channels proof

742
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,360
positive

743
00:27:59,590 --> 00:27:57,360
nick's recent books include women in

744
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:59,600
black and the monster book and he'll be

745
00:28:02,310 --> 00:28:01,360
joining us here in just a few moments so

746
00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:02,320
stay tuned

747
00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:04,559
as we'll be right back with our friend

748
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:05,360
your friend

749
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,520
nick redford welcome back folks arcane

750
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:11,279
radio sean forker launch strickler and

751
00:28:15,669 --> 00:28:12,720
butch witkowski

752
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:15,679
and we're joined live by mr nick redford

753
00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:16,000
and we

754
00:28:19,909 --> 00:28:18,880
ju read uh your bio before we came back

755
00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:19,919
on the air

756
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:21,760
uh there nick and welcome back to the

757
00:28:23,909 --> 00:28:23,440
program and we're good to have you with

758
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:23,919
us

759
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:25,360
it's our pleasure it's our pleasure so

760
00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:26,720
but the last time you were on here you

761
00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:28,480
wrote a new book and that's out

762
00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:31,520
women in black and uh how did women in

763
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:32,480
black come about

764
00:28:35,510 --> 00:28:34,080
every now and again sort of you know

765
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,520
every i know 15

766
00:28:38,789 --> 00:28:38,080
20 cases of a men in black report i

767
00:28:41,350 --> 00:28:38,799
would get where

768
00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:41,360
one where somebody would say something

769
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:42,480
along the lines of

770
00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:44,080
while the you know one of the cases you

771
00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:45,360
talked about in the book was very

772
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:46,640
similar to mine

773
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:48,480
but instead of involving a man it

774
00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:50,240
involved a woman in black

775
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:52,799
and so you know to start with i didn't

776
00:28:56,549 --> 00:28:54,880
think too much of it but then over time

777
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:56,559
i got more and more of these reports

778
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:58,320
come through and i realized it was sort

779
00:29:05,029 --> 00:28:59,200
of

780
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:05,039
the men in black mystery you know like a

781
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:07,360
side project of it almost

782
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:10,080
and so over time i collected more and

783
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:11,760
more to the point where

784
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:13,440
this year i was able to sort of write a

785
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:15,760
full-length book on all the different

786
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:18,320
reports so so it's very much due to you

787
00:29:21,669 --> 00:29:20,000
know people coming forward

788
00:29:28,870 --> 00:29:21,679
and sharing their stories because i'd

789
00:29:33,029 --> 00:29:31,430
interesting interesting we're uh

790
00:29:35,110 --> 00:29:33,039
lonnie's still with me

791
00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:35,120
yeah all right all right just checking i

792
00:29:39,669 --> 00:29:36,159
hate when that happens yeah

793
00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:39,679
i uh you know though i read the book

794
00:29:44,230 --> 00:29:43,039
you sent um nick and i'm telling you

795
00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:44,240
that was very interesting

796
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:45,760
a lot of stuff that i never even heard

797
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:47,679
about but i thought i thought one of the

798
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:49,360
most interesting things in the book and

799
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:50,720
it's one of the earlier parts of the

800
00:29:54,310 --> 00:29:51,600
book

801
00:29:57,669 --> 00:29:54,320
was where you had actually mentioned

802
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:57,679
about the bender family in in bridgeport

803
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:00,799
who was related to albert bender who

804
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:03,840
was actually the first person to see the

805
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:04,240
the

806
00:30:10,389 --> 00:30:08,960
can you can you talk a little bit about

807
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:10,399
that

808
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:12,080
well yeah bender was an interesting

809
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:14,159
character because there's also this

810
00:30:18,549 --> 00:30:16,320
little known women in black aspects

811
00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:18,559
attached to his story now he lived in

812
00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:19,840
bridgeport connecticut

813
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:22,240
and of all places possibly living in

814
00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:24,000
this spooky old house and

815
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:26,799
his bedroom or the entire room was the

816
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:27,760
attic

817
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,120
and um bender was very much into like um

818
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:33,440
sci-fi and horror but he was also

819
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:34,880
someone who was very

820
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:36,720
knowledgeable in the field of the occult

821
00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:38,240
and the paranormal and

822
00:30:41,830 --> 00:30:40,159
you know he wasn't like a dabbler he

823
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:41,840
sort of knew his history

824
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:43,360
in the world of the occult and things

825
00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:45,600
like this and um

826
00:30:50,470 --> 00:30:48,960
he converted this attic room into like

827
00:30:52,789 --> 00:30:50,480
what he actually called his chamber of

828
00:30:56,230 --> 00:30:52,799
horrors and he had sort of paintings of

829
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:56,240
like ghouls and demons in the room and

830
00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:57,039
um

831
00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:59,760
he also what he called his supernatural

832
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:00,799
altar

833
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:04,320
where he would literally sort of perform

834
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:06,240
ancient rituals and rights to try and

835
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:09,039
summon up supernatural entities

836
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:11,600
and it may not be entirely coincidence

837
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:13,039
at the height of his

838
00:31:17,909 --> 00:31:16,559
um ufo research because he created this

839
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:17,919
group in bridgeport called the

840
00:31:22,230 --> 00:31:20,320
international flying saucer bureau

841
00:31:24,389 --> 00:31:22,240
at the height of it he had these sort of

842
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:24,399
confrontations with the men in black but

843
00:31:27,909 --> 00:31:26,000
unlike the latter day

844
00:31:29,269 --> 00:31:27,919
movie versions you know where they work

845
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:29,279
for the government

846
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:31,120
in the original story many of the

847
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:32,320
original stories and

848
00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:34,799
particularly bender's story he described

849
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:35,519
how

850
00:31:39,269 --> 00:31:37,760
he would he'd be in his bedroom at night

851
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:39,279
and he'd suddenly start to feel

852
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:41,200
dizzy and light-headed and he had to lay

853
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:43,120
down and suddenly the

854
00:31:47,269 --> 00:31:44,960
room would be filled with like this

855
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:47,279
overwhelming old group like brimstone or

856
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:48,240
sulphur

857
00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:50,559
and these men in black would sort of

858
00:31:53,830 --> 00:31:51,919
shadowly

859
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:53,840
manifest kind of like the shadow people

860
00:31:58,389 --> 00:31:55,919
that people talk about today

861
00:31:59,029 --> 00:31:58,399
and they had these sort of black suits

862
00:32:05,029 --> 00:31:59,039
and

863
00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:05,039
then took on full

864
00:32:08,950 --> 00:32:07,519
form and telepathically warned him to

865
00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:08,960
leave ufology

866
00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:11,600
or else this went on for a while and

867
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:13,760
bender eventually did quit ufology his

868
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:15,200
health began to suffer

869
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:17,600
which he felt was somehow connected that

870
00:32:20,870 --> 00:32:18,720
he'd been sort of

871
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:20,880
almost like supernaturally infected by

872
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:22,480
them um

873
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:25,200
so he literally did quit ufology just

874
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:27,120
came back a few years later to

875
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:29,919
um to write his own book called flying

876
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:31,600
saucers and the three men

877
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:33,840
and uh but then he quit ufology after

878
00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:36,000
1962 never came back and

879
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:37,679
he actually died earlier this year at

880
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:39,679
the age of 95.

881
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:42,799
um but what's interesting is that bender

882
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:45,360
um the family the fan the bender family

883
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:46,559
actually had a tradition

884
00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:49,600
of a creepy woman in black in

885
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:52,159
um throughout the bender clan so to

886
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:53,840
speak and they all knew of her

887
00:32:58,389 --> 00:32:56,399
and supposedly she would um sort of

888
00:33:00,389 --> 00:32:58,399
appear in people's bedrooms in the

889
00:33:02,149 --> 00:33:00,399
middle of the night and there was one

890
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:02,159
particularly well-known story that he

891
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:03,919
would tell about how

892
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:06,960
a cousin of his a young boy um kept

893
00:33:10,630 --> 00:33:09,600
this coin around his neck on a chain and

894
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:10,640
apparently this

895
00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:13,200
woman in black would turn up every night

896
00:33:16,710 --> 00:33:14,320
and try and steal

897
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:16,720
the coin and the chains so uh you know

898
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:17,519
it's interesting

899
00:33:20,630 --> 00:33:19,200
the guy who pretty much kicked off the

900
00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:20,640
men in black mystery

901
00:33:25,509 --> 00:33:22,720
actually had a family tradition of a

902
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:25,519
woman in black as well

903
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:28,720
wow that's interesting and this uh this

904
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:30,960
woman in black phenomena actually

905
00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:32,240
happened

906
00:33:36,149 --> 00:33:35,200
early uh much earlier than the men in

907
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:36,159
black

908
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:38,799
phenomena isn't that correct yeah i've

909
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:39,840
actually got some

910
00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:41,360
well a lot of stories in the book i

911
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:43,039
think the two chapters in the book that

912
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:43,760
deal with

913
00:33:48,149 --> 00:33:47,120
19th century reports and they literally

914
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:48,159
do describe

915
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:49,760
even in the article title you know it's

916
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:52,080
like strange woman in black

917
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:54,640
on the loose that kind of thing and um

918
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:56,080
in many of these cases

919
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:58,799
um which i talk about some in the uk and

920
00:34:02,470 --> 00:34:00,240
some in the us

921
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:02,480
um where people had seen these sort of

922
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:03,919
very pale faced

923
00:34:09,190 --> 00:34:07,120
women in black and these long flowing

924
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:09,200
black cloaks

925
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:11,520
and very much acting in the same way

926
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:12,800
they did in the past they would sort of

927
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:15,200
knock on people's doors out of nowhere

928
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:16,879
but what was sort of really creepy is in

929
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:18,399
many of the cases

930
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:20,480
they would knock on the front doors of

931
00:34:24,149 --> 00:34:22,240
women who were about to give birth

932
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:24,159
or who had just given birth and they

933
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:26,320
would try and steal the babies

934
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:28,960
and what's really even more creepy is

935
00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:29,760
that some of the

936
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:32,720
english stories are almost identical to

937
00:34:36,389 --> 00:34:34,159
other ones i have in the book

938
00:34:37,349 --> 00:34:36,399
uh from the us and canada and it's

939
00:34:40,149 --> 00:34:37,359
almost as if

940
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:40,159
you know some sort of weird supernatural

941
00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:41,359
cult was at work

942
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:43,520
on the part of these women in black to

943
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:45,200
to steal newborn babies

944
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:47,359
you know around the world so it's a very

945
00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:49,200
very strange phenomenon that goes

946
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:52,879
far beyond just ufos

947
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:56,159
yeah uh john keel wrote about that back

948
00:35:02,069 --> 00:34:58,480
in 67 in the strange case of the

949
00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:02,079
pregnant woman um from what you had i

950
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:02,560
mean i'm

951
00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:06,240
just taking from with your book um

952
00:35:12,390 --> 00:35:09,520
so did it did it it did seem that these

953
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:12,400
were possibly extraterrestrial entities

954
00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:15,680
that people that he thought it was

955
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:17,599
yeah kale i mean kale was someone who

956
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:19,920
sort of looked into a lot of these um

957
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:21,839
stories of women in black um there

958
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:23,760
weren't many known back then but

959
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:26,240
john keele did investigate some when he

960
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:28,240
was looking into the mothman

961
00:35:32,069 --> 00:35:30,960
situation in point pleasant in 66 and

962
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:32,079
67.

963
00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:35,440
in some cases um these women would turn

964
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:36,240
off

965
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:38,560
people's doorsteps who'd seen mothman

966
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,720
claimed to be census takers

967
00:35:44,310 --> 00:35:42,640
and but when they got in the house they

968
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:44,320
would start asking all sorts of weird

969
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:45,839
questions relative to

970
00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:47,680
paranormal phenomena and things like

971
00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:50,240
that and another one of these women

972
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:52,640
um pretended to be john keele's

973
00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:53,520
secretary

974
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:56,880
and um especially bullying people around

975
00:36:00,310 --> 00:35:58,720
town to tell them what they've seen

976
00:36:01,750 --> 00:36:00,320
and then they put a complaint in with

977
00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:01,760
keel to say you know your

978
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:03,520
secretary's kind of crossed the line

979
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:05,200
she's been bullying us and

980
00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:06,880
keel was like well i haven't got a

981
00:36:11,109 --> 00:36:08,560
secretary you know

982
00:36:11,670 --> 00:36:11,119
so um but in many of these cases the

983
00:36:13,589 --> 00:36:11,680
women

984
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:13,599
all look the same they were sort of very

985
00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:14,880
pale

986
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:17,760
looking um long black hair which in some

987
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:19,280
cases the witnesses said

988
00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:21,760
looked like long black wigs and they

989
00:36:26,069 --> 00:36:23,839
would hide their eyes behind these

990
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:26,079
large wraparound sunglasses and some of

991
00:36:29,589 --> 00:36:27,920
the witnesses said as they got close to

992
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:29,599
them they could see that their

993
00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:31,920
eyes behind the sunglasses looked

994
00:36:35,190 --> 00:36:33,520
abnormally large

995
00:36:37,910 --> 00:36:35,200
as if they were trying to camouflage

996
00:36:40,390 --> 00:36:37,920
their sort of real appearance and

997
00:36:42,470 --> 00:36:40,400
but most of the people although the sort

998
00:36:45,750 --> 00:36:42,480
of the the kidnapping of the babies

999
00:36:47,349 --> 00:36:45,760
aspect aside most of the cases on record

1000
00:36:47,990 --> 00:36:47,359
and certainly nearly all the ones i've

1001
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:48,000
got

1002
00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:50,960
are tied to people who've had ufo or

1003
00:36:55,589 --> 00:36:52,720
paranormal experiences

1004
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:55,599
um and mainly ufos out of all the you

1005
00:37:01,430 --> 00:36:58,480
know the different ones

1006
00:37:01,910 --> 00:37:01,440
yeah well that comes that uh brings me

1007
00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:01,920
to uh

1008
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:05,359
truman bethel and ara rands

1009
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:08,720
i mean that that was one crazy

1010
00:37:13,589 --> 00:37:11,920
story i mean the fact

1011
00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:13,599
maybe you can go into a little bit of

1012
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:16,560
that it that was amazing

1013
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:19,040
yeah sure well truman bathroom was

1014
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:21,119
somebody who became famous in the

1015
00:37:25,589 --> 00:37:22,400
so-called um

1016
00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:25,599
contactee era of ufology in other words

1017
00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:27,599
in the early 1950s and

1018
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:29,280
you know among the most famous of the

1019
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:31,119
contact teams were people like

1020
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:34,079
georgia damsky and george van tassel and

1021
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:36,720
they typically claimed contact

1022
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:39,359
usually at desert locations with very

1023
00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:40,800
human looking

1024
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:43,599
aliens and typically um you know they

1025
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:44,880
would sort of make

1026
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:46,560
their concerns known about atomic

1027
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:48,800
weapons and how we've all got to live in

1028
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:50,800
peace and so on and and it very much

1029
00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:52,320
became the contact t

1030
00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:55,520
issue became like a movement um

1031
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:57,440
and you know you had people like van

1032
00:38:00,870 --> 00:37:58,720
tassel putting on

1033
00:38:02,230 --> 00:38:00,880
outdoor events at giant rock in

1034
00:38:04,230 --> 00:38:02,240
california where

1035
00:38:05,990 --> 00:38:04,240
literally thousands would turn up you

1036
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:06,000
know while the highest gathering was

1037
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:08,880
like 11 000 i think in the 1950s

1038
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:10,800
you know which is unheard of today you

1039
00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:12,800
know for a ufo conference

1040
00:38:17,990 --> 00:38:16,160
um but according to truman bathroom

1041
00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:18,000
this particular experience occurred in

1042
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:19,760
the summer of 52

1043
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:22,560
when he was working in nevada and her

1044
00:38:25,990 --> 00:38:24,560
place i think you pronounce it mopa or

1045
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:26,000
moapa valley

1046
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:29,040
and um he claimed to have seen a ufo

1047
00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:30,000
come down

1048
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:32,079
on what's called mormon mesa it's like

1049
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:33,920
this two thousand high foot

1050
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:37,200
a foot high mesa in uh in nevada

1051
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:39,040
and he claimed it was you know something

1052
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:40,640
like straight out of the day the earth

1053
00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:41,920
stood still like a large

1054
00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:45,440
silvery white flying saucer and

1055
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:48,000
bathroom claimed to have met the crew

1056
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:49,440
which he described as

1057
00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:51,680
i funny enough not like the typical

1058
00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:53,680
space brothers or space sisters they

1059
00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:55,359
said they were all only about five feet

1060
00:38:59,030 --> 00:38:56,400
tall

1061
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:59,040
um looked human but they had some

1062
00:39:00,950 --> 00:39:00,480
different characteristics where you

1063
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:00,960
would look

1064
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:03,520
twice adam now it's a very controversial

1065
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:04,960
story because

1066
00:39:10,150 --> 00:39:08,240
uh beckham claimed that he met one of

1067
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:10,160
several of the crew members including a

1068
00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:11,920
beautiful alien woman

1069
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:16,079
named aura reigns um and

1070
00:39:19,589 --> 00:39:18,400
he gets into sort of like almost like a

1071
00:39:22,870 --> 00:39:19,599
flirty type of

1072
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:22,880
you know um human meta alien kind of

1073
00:39:25,910 --> 00:39:24,240
situation and uh

1074
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:25,920
yeah you know because it's such a

1075
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:27,680
controversial story

1076
00:39:30,710 --> 00:39:29,040
you know it sort of puts people in

1077
00:39:32,470 --> 00:39:30,720
different camps those who think

1078
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:32,480
wow this is really interesting others

1079
00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:34,160
think you know this guy had

1080
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:36,480
way too much time on his time you know

1081
00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:38,000
and uh

1082
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:41,040
you know just creating fantasies but

1083
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:43,200
um what's particularly interesting that

1084
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:44,960
a lot of people have overlooked

1085
00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:47,359
is that if you read not his most

1086
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:48,880
well-known book which is called a border

1087
00:39:51,829 --> 00:39:49,920
flying saucer

1088
00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:51,839
but some of his self-published ones

1089
00:39:56,310 --> 00:39:54,160
which just had very small circulations

1090
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:56,320
of like 150 copies

1091
00:40:01,510 --> 00:39:59,280
in those he talked about how on several

1092
00:40:04,550 --> 00:40:01,520
occasions he saw aura reigns

1093
00:40:07,829 --> 00:40:04,560
not on mormon mesa but

1094
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:07,839
actually walking through like in las

1095
00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:09,839
vegas and certain cities

1096
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,839
which sounds very controversial but he

1097
00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:13,760
described her as wearing like a black

1098
00:40:18,309 --> 00:40:14,560
outfit

1099
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:18,319
black sunglasses black beret and she had

1100
00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:19,920
this long black hair

1101
00:40:23,990 --> 00:40:23,359
and looked very pale and you know nobody

1102
00:40:26,309 --> 00:40:24,000
really back

1103
00:40:27,829 --> 00:40:26,319
then was talking about the women in

1104
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:27,839
black and yet

1105
00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:31,040
bathroom was and he was describing them

1106
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:33,280
exactly as how people would like to

1107
00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:35,200
describe them like 15 years later at

1108
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:36,560
point pleasant

1109
00:40:41,349 --> 00:40:39,599
so you know the big question is is that

1110
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:41,359
just one big coincidence

1111
00:40:45,230 --> 00:40:44,079
or you know did bathroom actually see

1112
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:45,240
this sort of

1113
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:48,240
extraterrestrial woman who maneuvered

1114
00:40:52,230 --> 00:40:49,760
amongst us without being

1115
00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:52,240
noticed too much by you know covering

1116
00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:53,839
herself up with a beret and

1117
00:40:57,589 --> 00:40:57,040
long black hair or a wig sunglasses and

1118
00:40:59,349 --> 00:40:57,599
um

1119
00:41:01,670 --> 00:40:59,359
you know it sounds very much like what

1120
00:41:02,309 --> 00:41:01,680
john kale was reporting 15 years later

1121
00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:02,319
so

1122
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:04,880
for me um you know the bender story

1123
00:41:09,829 --> 00:41:06,880
excuse me the bathroom story

1124
00:41:11,349 --> 00:41:09,839
does have some degree of merit to it and

1125
00:41:12,870 --> 00:41:11,359
i think he probably actually did

1126
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:12,880
experience

1127
00:41:17,190 --> 00:41:15,599
something strange now some aspects of

1128
00:41:19,589 --> 00:41:17,200
the story sound like almost

1129
00:41:20,790 --> 00:41:19,599
he was putting like a a trance-like

1130
00:41:23,349 --> 00:41:20,800
state by the

1131
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:23,359
beings themselves so possibly some of

1132
00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:25,359
that was done to sort of create

1133
00:41:29,349 --> 00:41:28,000
imagery in his mind that's you know sort

1134
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:29,359
of made him feel more

1135
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:31,359
comfortable and relaxed with entities

1136
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:32,880
that were more like us

1137
00:41:36,230 --> 00:41:34,800
so maybe to some in some respect his

1138
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:36,240
mind was sort of

1139
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:38,640
meddled with but the fact that he had

1140
00:41:43,829 --> 00:41:40,560
these mib encounters but

1141
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:43,839
you know but with women um i actually do

1142
00:41:47,349 --> 00:41:45,599
think you know it wasn't a coincidence

1143
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:47,359
that he kind of pre-empted what came

1144
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:48,240
later i think

1145
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:51,359
he did really see him well

1146
00:41:55,109 --> 00:41:53,520
i i think he probably did because there

1147
00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:55,119
were others that had seen him as well

1148
00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:56,560
when he was in the uh

1149
00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:59,280
the restaurant his yeah the guy who was

1150
00:42:03,589 --> 00:42:00,560
with him saw it

1151
00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:03,599
and the uh the waiters saw her as well

1152
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:04,960
and in fact

1153
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:07,440
the waitress was given a message when he

1154
00:42:10,390 --> 00:42:08,079
tried

1155
00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:10,400
to talk to her and refused to talk to

1156
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:11,280
him

1157
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:13,200
and then the waitress came up and said

1158
00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:15,119
that you know

1159
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:16,640
that she does know who he was didn't

1160
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:18,480
know who he was when she denied it

1161
00:42:22,309 --> 00:42:19,440
earlier

1162
00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:22,319
it it's a crazy story well it is and

1163
00:42:25,270 --> 00:42:23,440
what's weirder

1164
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:25,280
is that we get a lot of stories about

1165
00:42:29,589 --> 00:42:26,880
women in black and men in black

1166
00:42:30,790 --> 00:42:29,599
seen in restaurants and diners in our

1167
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:30,800
away places

1168
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:32,640
there's a lot of famous stories like

1169
00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:34,240
that and um

1170
00:42:38,630 --> 00:42:35,520
but you're right you know that that

1171
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:38,640
issue in the in the diner um

1172
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:40,000
bathroom was actually with a friend of

1173
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:41,520
his who he worked with and they were on

1174
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:41,760
a

1175
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:44,560
night so they went into this diner out

1176
00:42:49,109 --> 00:42:46,960
in the nevada desert about 2 a.m to get

1177
00:42:52,470 --> 00:42:49,119
to know like an early breakfast

1178
00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:52,480
a late dinner and the

1179
00:42:56,470 --> 00:42:54,400
what the woman black aura reigns was

1180
00:42:58,150 --> 00:42:56,480
actually there with a man in black

1181
00:43:00,550 --> 00:42:58,160
it was supposedly one of her colleagues

1182
00:43:02,230 --> 00:43:00,560
and she avoided talking to

1183
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:02,240
uh bathroom and she was actually quite

1184
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:04,079
hostile now what's weird

1185
00:43:07,750 --> 00:43:06,560
they think it's even more weird is that

1186
00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:07,760
the man had his

1187
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:10,960
scar on his face but the waitress said

1188
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:13,440
that when she placed the food down she

1189
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:15,200
could tell it was like painted on like

1190
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:16,400
it was makeup or

1191
00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:19,599
like a like a line of lipstick now as

1192
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:21,200
bizarre as it sounds there are a lot of

1193
00:43:25,829 --> 00:43:23,040
cases of the men in black

1194
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:25,839
appearing to wear makeup and lipstick to

1195
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:26,720
try and

1196
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:29,119
make themselves look more human and

1197
00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:31,359
healthy rather than the sort of

1198
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:34,000
you know totally kind of anemic white

1199
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:34,880
collar that they

1200
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:38,240
usually are so again he ben better

1201
00:43:42,790 --> 00:43:40,720
kind of preempted that aspect as well

1202
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:42,800
and granted it he's a weird

1203
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:45,599
but you know he does tie in with some of

1204
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:46,800
kiehl's reports where

1205
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:48,960
the witnesses said that you know the man

1206
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:50,480
in black looked like he'd got

1207
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:53,119
sort of pink makeup on and they in one

1208
00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:54,400
case the guy

1209
00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:56,480
sort of rubbed his cheek and it came off

1210
00:43:59,589 --> 00:43:58,000
and they could see underneath he was

1211
00:44:02,230 --> 00:43:59,599
just totally

1212
00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:02,240
white like a sheet of paper you know so

1213
00:44:07,030 --> 00:44:03,200
it gets into

1214
00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:07,040
really really strange areas

1215
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:09,839
know that you know and the another thing

1216
00:44:16,230 --> 00:44:10,240
that

1217
00:44:18,550 --> 00:44:16,240
when he first met her then had

1218
00:44:20,390 --> 00:44:18,560
subsequent uh

1219
00:44:22,470 --> 00:44:20,400
rendezvous it seemed they almost had a

1220
00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:22,480
romantic type of uh

1221
00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:25,520
relationship then all of a sudden she

1222
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:28,960
denied knowing who he was then he comes

1223
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:31,440
at the end toward the end he says that

1224
00:44:37,589 --> 00:44:35,440
they started hooking up again later on

1225
00:44:39,430 --> 00:44:37,599
well yeah i mean it's a really odd story

1226
00:44:41,349 --> 00:44:39,440
because in some respects although it

1227
00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:41,359
doesn't explicitly say so

1228
00:44:46,550 --> 00:44:44,560
it's not unlike the um antonio villas

1229
00:44:49,589 --> 00:44:46,560
boa story from brazilian

1230
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:49,599
57 where villas beau has

1231
00:44:53,589 --> 00:44:51,520
basically claimed to have had sex with

1232
00:44:56,230 --> 00:44:53,599
this sort of hot looking

1233
00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:56,240
extraterrestrial woman now bathroom

1234
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:56,800
doesn't

1235
00:45:01,670 --> 00:44:59,359
explicitly go that far but there are a

1236
00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:01,680
few pointers here and there where

1237
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:03,280
you kind of think that that's actually

1238
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:05,040
what he meant but he didn't about right

1239
00:45:08,470 --> 00:45:05,680
and say

1240
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:08,480
now it is interesting that at the time

1241
00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:10,240
he was actually on his second marriage

1242
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:11,680
and that was failing and

1243
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:14,480
you know some people have wondered if

1244
00:45:19,030 --> 00:45:14,880
that

1245
00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:19,040
know if psychologically the

1246
00:45:22,390 --> 00:45:21,520
aliens could have tapped into his mind

1247
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:22,400
and

1248
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:25,760
almost created like an imagery of

1249
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:29,440
this woman so to speak um you know and

1250
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:32,240
and he played it with um into his

1251
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:33,359
subconscious and

1252
00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:35,200
but apparently after this whatever the

1253
00:45:40,230 --> 00:45:37,119
truth is after this experience he

1254
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:40,240
he was he remained obsessed with her uh

1255
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:41,359
all arranged

1256
00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:43,760
and he married a third time in the 60s

1257
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:45,359
and what was interesting

1258
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:47,680
is that his wife who he married in the

1259
00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:48,720
60s was

1260
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:51,440
her name was alvirah roberts and so

1261
00:45:56,790 --> 00:45:53,520
alvirah the first and last

1262
00:45:59,910 --> 00:45:56,800
letter of alvirah is a a which is

1263
00:46:00,150 --> 00:45:59,920
aura you know a a and reigns begins with

1264
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:00,160
r

1265
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:15,680
affected him

1266
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:18,240
partly positively and partly sort of

1267
00:46:21,349 --> 00:46:19,760
obsessively so it's

1268
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:21,359
you know it's a really interesting sort

1269
00:46:26,150 --> 00:46:24,240
of case file

1270
00:46:29,349 --> 00:46:26,160
you you think there's a possibility that

1271
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:29,359
his third wave was actually orange

1272
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:33,200
um no i i actually don't because

1273
00:46:36,309 --> 00:46:34,720
if you say pictures of her she doesn't

1274
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:36,319
look anything like the description

1275
00:46:40,870 --> 00:46:38,560
of yeah um or arranged cause she was

1276
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:40,880
supposed to only like five feet tall

1277
00:46:45,670 --> 00:46:44,160
and um you know his wife was actually

1278
00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:45,680
actually quite tall like about five

1279
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:48,160
eight five nine i think

1280
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:52,000
okay you know it kind of sounds

1281
00:46:59,430 --> 00:46:55,200
like a dance did the damski ever have um

1282
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,440
ever report any type of wib at all

1283
00:47:02,630 --> 00:47:01,680
we didn't report any women in black but

1284
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:02,640
he did report

1285
00:47:06,790 --> 00:47:05,440
sort of um female equivalents of the

1286
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:06,800
space brothers yeah

1287
00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:09,040
yeah sort of like women with long blonde

1288
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:10,000
hair but but not

1289
00:47:17,670 --> 00:47:14,400
women in black as such no the venusians

1290
00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:17,680
yeah yeah interesting you know

1291
00:47:21,190 --> 00:47:19,440
uh you mentioned you know i was thinking

1292
00:47:24,069 --> 00:47:21,200
about just while i was reading your book

1293
00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:24,079
but uh you had mentioned david jacobs

1294
00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:25,280
book walking among

1295
00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:27,680
us and when i first read that book years

1296
00:47:32,630 --> 00:47:28,480
ago

1297
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:32,640
that that old but it's uh

1298
00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:34,960
i was thinking like you were thinking

1299
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:36,400
this is crazy but

1300
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:39,359
you know you're right the the

1301
00:47:46,069 --> 00:47:41,599
similarities between hybrids the

1302
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:46,079
w i being the mib is pretty startling

1303
00:47:50,549 --> 00:47:48,720
well yeah i mean ironically david jacobs

1304
00:47:53,109 --> 00:47:50,559
doesn't talk about the men in black or

1305
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:53,119
women in black in his book

1306
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:56,000
but what he does talk about are issues

1307
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:58,079
that are very similar to both the mib

1308
00:48:01,589 --> 00:47:59,520
and wib

1309
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:01,599
uh subjects for example he talks about

1310
00:48:06,309 --> 00:48:04,000
how the hybrids are sent out

1311
00:48:08,549 --> 00:48:06,319
to and try and understand our customs

1312
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:08,559
and mannerisms so they go into

1313
00:48:12,069 --> 00:48:11,200
um like restaurants and you know they're

1314
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:12,079
not

1315
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:14,720
entirely about to eat probably or to

1316
00:48:18,549 --> 00:48:16,480
drink they have to learn

1317
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:18,559
um and that's that happens in so many

1318
00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:20,480
many black cases where

1319
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:21,839
you know people have seen the men in

1320
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:24,480
black see down before them and

1321
00:48:28,309 --> 00:48:26,160
they don't seem to understand how to eat

1322
00:48:30,470 --> 00:48:28,319
food and they always refuse

1323
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:30,480
drinks for the most part and uh there's

1324
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:32,400
a famous store better however

1325
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:34,800
man black supposedly tried to drink a

1326
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:36,240
bowl of gel

1327
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:38,960
um yeah so there's a lot of weird stuff

1328
00:48:42,309 --> 00:48:40,000
like that

1329
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:42,319
and um there's been a number of cases

1330
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:45,040
where both the women in black and the

1331
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:49,119
men in black are speaking to witnesses

1332
00:48:54,309 --> 00:48:52,240
and it's suddenly asked uh

1333
00:48:55,990 --> 00:48:54,319
perceptually questioned out the blue and

1334
00:48:59,109 --> 00:48:56,000
david jacobs talks in the book

1335
00:49:01,829 --> 00:48:59,119
in his book as well about how the

1336
00:49:03,109 --> 00:49:01,839
don't really understand like sexual

1337
00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:03,119
customs you know they just

1338
00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:05,040
they'll blurt something out so there's a

1339
00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:06,160
lot of weird stuff

1340
00:49:09,349 --> 00:49:07,599
like that that actually does if you know

1341
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:09,359
your mib history

1342
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:10,800
you know that those things jump out of

1343
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:13,280
the pages of his book

1344
00:49:20,990 --> 00:49:18,000
yeah well you know i you you also

1345
00:49:22,549 --> 00:49:21,000
wrote a bit about mac tony's in his book

1346
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:22,559
cryptocurrencies

1347
00:49:27,510 --> 00:49:25,440
which i i it was i thought it was an

1348
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:27,520
amazing book it had a lot of

1349
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:30,480
weird in a way weird type of theories

1350
00:49:34,710 --> 00:49:32,240
and he you know but

1351
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:34,720
when it got to the uh when you talked

1352
00:49:37,910 --> 00:49:35,680
about the

1353
00:49:39,190 --> 00:49:37,920
the race of underground dwellers that he

1354
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:39,200
wrote about

1355
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:41,520
and how that may have correlated with uh

1356
00:49:45,510 --> 00:49:42,960
roswell

1357
00:49:46,309 --> 00:49:45,520
and you know it doesn't make a bit of

1358
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:46,319
sense

1359
00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:48,800
i mean i have thought for a long time

1360
00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:49,760
and i still do

1361
00:49:56,790 --> 00:49:53,359
that you know these these

1362
00:49:59,430 --> 00:49:56,800
non-human beings these non-terrestrials

1363
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:59,440
were underground based as opposed to

1364
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:00,720
coming from

1365
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:04,000
you know from the stars and that

1366
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:07,200
these really may be us

1367
00:50:13,750 --> 00:50:10,880
in the long run um

1368
00:50:15,510 --> 00:50:13,760
what do you think about that well yeah i

1369
00:50:16,150 --> 00:50:15,520
mean it's a controversial theory but i

1370
00:50:18,390 --> 00:50:16,160
mean there are

1371
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:18,400
you know as you said with mac's book you

1372
00:50:21,829 --> 00:50:20,160
know he did point out some interesting

1373
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:21,839
stuff and that's why you know i sort of

1374
00:50:27,270 --> 00:50:24,400
referred to him in the book

1375
00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:27,280
for example you know the idea that well

1376
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:28,960
if these are extraterrestrials and

1377
00:50:31,670 --> 00:50:30,720
they're coming from however many light

1378
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:31,680
years away

1379
00:50:35,349 --> 00:50:33,440
you know they seem perfectly comfortable

1380
00:50:37,030 --> 00:50:35,359
in our atmosphere without you know the

1381
00:50:40,309 --> 00:50:37,040
planet's gravity

1382
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:40,319
um with oxygen levels you know which

1383
00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:40,720
would

1384
00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:43,359
which kind of sounds a little bit too

1385
00:50:47,349 --> 00:50:45,359
coincidental you know that they wouldn't

1386
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:47,359
have any trouble just adapting to our

1387
00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:48,480
planet now

1388
00:50:54,710 --> 00:50:51,680
of course if there are deep underground

1389
00:50:55,990 --> 00:50:54,720
you know hidden ancient races well it

1390
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:56,000
would possibly

1391
00:51:00,309 --> 00:50:58,720
be to their advantage to masquerade as

1392
00:51:02,549 --> 00:51:00,319
aliens to hide their

1393
00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:02,559
real origins and of course all their

1394
00:51:06,309 --> 00:51:03,440
worries about

1395
00:51:08,309 --> 00:51:06,319
nuclear war you know if they're from

1396
00:51:09,829 --> 00:51:08,319
however many light years away

1397
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:09,839
why would they even bother if we

1398
00:51:13,510 --> 00:51:11,280
destroyed ourselves but if they're

1399
00:51:15,910 --> 00:51:13,520
forced to share the planet with us

1400
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:15,920
um then it makes a great deal more sense

1401
00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:17,359
that they would warn us

1402
00:51:20,870 --> 00:51:19,760
subtly and perhaps sometimes more openly

1403
00:51:23,109 --> 00:51:20,880
not to break out

1404
00:51:24,630 --> 00:51:23,119
you know the nuclear war because they

1405
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:24,640
would be affected by it as well if

1406
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:26,720
they're forced you know to live on the

1407
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:29,359
planet with us so um you can't make an

1408
00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:30,400
interesting case

1409
00:51:34,870 --> 00:51:33,440
and of course um you know the idea that

1410
00:51:36,150 --> 00:51:34,880
the men in black and the women in black

1411
00:51:37,589 --> 00:51:36,160
are very pale

1412
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:37,599
well you could make a case that if

1413
00:51:41,829 --> 00:51:39,760
they're living underground all the time

1414
00:51:44,069 --> 00:51:41,839
barely ever seen the sunlight and after

1415
00:51:44,710 --> 00:51:44,079
multiple generations maybe they would

1416
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:44,720
look

1417
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:46,720
totally anemic even if they actually you

1418
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:49,440
know actually didn't have anemia

1419
00:51:54,069 --> 00:51:53,040
yeah well that would kind of tie in with

1420
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:54,079
the hybrid

1421
00:51:58,390 --> 00:51:56,720
theory in a way not that i really buy

1422
00:52:01,349 --> 00:51:58,400
into the hybrid theory

1423
00:52:02,309 --> 00:52:01,359
uh you know you know it's just not a cut

1424
00:52:06,390 --> 00:52:02,319
and dry thing

1425
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:08,069
we're not talking about alien human

1426
00:52:14,470 --> 00:52:11,200
hybrids but an ancient terrestrial

1427
00:52:16,150 --> 00:52:14,480
race and exactly almost dapien hybrids

1428
00:52:19,510 --> 00:52:16,160
you know it's kind of like

1429
00:52:21,910 --> 00:52:19,520
you know could crow magnum man mate with

1430
00:52:23,510 --> 00:52:21,920
modern-day man maybe probably they could

1431
00:52:25,430 --> 00:52:23,520
you know but they'll be different types

1432
00:52:27,109 --> 00:52:25,440
of humans so maybe

1433
00:52:28,870 --> 00:52:27,119
we could be dealing with a different

1434
00:52:31,030 --> 00:52:28,880
type of human that

1435
00:52:32,790 --> 00:52:31,040
you know shares the earth with us it's

1436
00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:32,800
it's a controversial theory but on the

1437
00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:33,760
other hand

1438
00:52:37,270 --> 00:52:35,920
you could argue it's not that much more

1439
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:37,280
controversial than

1440
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:39,599
aliens you know creating hybrids and

1441
00:52:44,390 --> 00:52:40,800
dressing them up in

1442
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:44,400
fedoras and black wigs you know

1443
00:52:49,990 --> 00:52:47,520
yeah i i was interested uh

1444
00:52:51,589 --> 00:52:50,000
reading what you had in her about uh

1445
00:52:53,109 --> 00:52:51,599
denise stoner and now

1446
00:52:54,870 --> 00:52:53,119
butch is familiar with these denise

1447
00:52:58,390 --> 00:52:54,880
because he's worked with her before

1448
00:53:01,030 --> 00:52:58,400
but her her confrontations

1449
00:53:03,030 --> 00:53:01,040
with these uh black-eyed beings i mean

1450
00:53:04,870 --> 00:53:03,040
and the possible connection

1451
00:53:06,870 --> 00:53:04,880
with the black-eyed kids black-eyed

1452
00:53:10,069 --> 00:53:06,880
people and the men in black

1453
00:53:13,349 --> 00:53:11,349
well yeah i actually have a couple of

1454
00:53:15,910 --> 00:53:13,359
stories in the book um

1455
00:53:18,309 --> 00:53:15,920
where these women in black had black

1456
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:18,319
eyes as um denise's and also another

1457
00:53:24,470 --> 00:53:20,640
friend of mine uh christina george

1458
00:53:25,990 --> 00:53:24,480
but um denise um certainly in the 2000s

1459
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:26,000
has had a lot of weird

1460
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:29,040
ufo encounters um

1461
00:53:32,309 --> 00:53:31,440
and many of them of sort of the women in

1462
00:53:35,430 --> 00:53:32,319
black type

1463
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:35,440
um probably the creepiest one was one

1464
00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:36,480
that um

1465
00:53:43,270 --> 00:53:39,920
well actually a couple um one um

1466
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:43,280
involved her daughter um who one day was

1467
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:44,240
in the house and

1468
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:46,400
there was a sudden constant ringing on

1469
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:47,760
the front door you know as if somebody

1470
00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:49,440
was just ringing the bell

1471
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:52,960
endlessly and um you know her daughter

1472
00:53:55,109 --> 00:53:54,559
wondered who it was obviously so she

1473
00:53:56,710 --> 00:53:55,119
looked

1474
00:53:59,349 --> 00:53:56,720
through the spy hole and there were

1475
00:54:02,470 --> 00:53:59,359
these two almost identical women

1476
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:02,480
um peering through or looking towards

1477
00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:04,000
the door you know towards the spiral

1478
00:54:06,710 --> 00:54:04,960
itself

1479
00:54:08,309 --> 00:54:06,720
so her daughter went running and said

1480
00:54:08,790 --> 00:54:08,319
you know quick come to the door there's

1481
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:08,800
two

1482
00:54:12,230 --> 00:54:10,559
strange women you know the unders the

1483
00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:12,240
other side so

1484
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:15,280
um denise did exactly that she uh raced

1485
00:54:18,470 --> 00:54:16,240
to the door

1486
00:54:20,230 --> 00:54:18,480
looked through the spy hole and sure

1487
00:54:23,430 --> 00:54:20,240
enough there were these two

1488
00:54:24,230 --> 00:54:23,440
sort of fairly short um women dressed in

1489
00:54:26,549 --> 00:54:24,240
black and

1490
00:54:27,670 --> 00:54:26,559
both of them had their hair in in black

1491
00:54:30,790 --> 00:54:27,680
bangs

1492
00:54:33,030 --> 00:54:30,800
and um they had sort of uh she described

1493
00:54:34,870 --> 00:54:33,040
the skin as being tanned but sort of

1494
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:34,880
doughy looking as well sort of you know

1495
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:36,640
pasty kind of looking

1496
00:54:41,349 --> 00:54:39,760
and um they had these large solid black

1497
00:54:43,510 --> 00:54:41,359
eyes very much like the

1498
00:54:46,309 --> 00:54:43,520
you know the eyes that we see in the

1499
00:54:50,069 --> 00:54:46,319
images of the so-called greys the aliens

1500
00:54:52,069 --> 00:54:50,079
um but they had um almost like um

1501
00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:52,079
like an overall type thing on like a

1502
00:54:57,589 --> 00:54:54,640
dress but with straps over the shoulders

1503
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:57,599
now the she didn't open the door to them

1504
00:54:59,829 --> 00:54:58,079
at all

1505
00:55:01,510 --> 00:54:59,839
you know as most people probably

1506
00:55:04,230 --> 00:55:01,520
wouldn't when you see these sort of

1507
00:55:04,549 --> 00:55:04,240
creepy characters with solid black eyes

1508
00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:04,559
but

1509
00:55:09,589 --> 00:55:07,680
um what happened was that

1510
00:55:10,870 --> 00:55:09,599
she actually in the end did decide to

1511
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:10,880
open the door now

1512
00:55:15,270 --> 00:55:12,640
the last time she looked in the spy hill

1513
00:55:19,030 --> 00:55:15,280
they were there as she opened the door

1514
00:55:20,950 --> 00:55:19,040
there was no one there at all and um

1515
00:55:22,230 --> 00:55:20,960
so that that was very strange but in a

1516
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:22,240
lot of these reports

1517
00:55:26,069 --> 00:55:24,480
the both the men in black and the women

1518
00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:26,079
in black seem to have the ability to

1519
00:55:29,270 --> 00:55:26,720
almost

1520
00:55:31,829 --> 00:55:29,280
impossibly vanish from the door it's

1521
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:31,839
like at an impossibly fast speed

1522
00:55:36,390 --> 00:55:34,400
so you know as bizarre as it sounds

1523
00:55:38,470 --> 00:55:36,400
denise's story is actually

1524
00:55:40,150 --> 00:55:38,480
backed up by a lot of similar ones but

1525
00:55:41,990 --> 00:55:40,160
uh but she had a lot of other weird

1526
00:55:43,990 --> 00:55:42,000
stuff come where some guy

1527
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:44,000
uh like again looked an odd looking guy

1528
00:55:49,510 --> 00:55:46,160
turned up and claimed that he was

1529
00:55:53,829 --> 00:55:49,520
um sort of there on behalf of the city

1530
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:55,510
in the house and again she got a weird

1531
00:55:58,150 --> 00:55:57,599
vibe and essentially sent him back in

1532
00:56:00,150 --> 00:55:58,160
and

1533
00:56:02,069 --> 00:56:00,160
she also saw a couple of these weird

1534
00:56:05,109 --> 00:56:02,079
women in store

1535
00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:05,119
as if you know somehow they

1536
00:56:09,670 --> 00:56:07,760
sort of popped up on her radar or she

1537
00:56:12,470 --> 00:56:09,680
popped up on bears for whatever reason

1538
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:15,990
yeah most of us are familiar with the

1539
00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:18,240
men in black as far as you know the

1540
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:20,400
original

1541
00:56:25,829 --> 00:56:23,760
uh with maul

1542
00:56:29,910 --> 00:56:25,839
as such in point pleasant but one thing

1543
00:56:31,829 --> 00:56:29,920
i didn't

1544
00:56:32,950 --> 00:56:31,839
i heard about it was that the women in

1545
00:56:37,670 --> 00:56:32,960
black act

1546
00:56:40,789 --> 00:56:38,789
[Music]

1547
00:56:42,710 --> 00:56:40,799
why is that is that common knowledge

1548
00:56:45,910 --> 00:56:42,720
because i be quite honest with you

1549
00:56:46,309 --> 00:56:45,920
i never really heard of that before oh

1550
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:46,319
yeah

1551
00:56:50,470 --> 00:56:49,280
kale actually um uncovered a number of

1552
00:56:52,230 --> 00:56:50,480
cases of these

1553
00:56:54,950 --> 00:56:52,240
these women sort of dressing in black

1554
00:56:55,829 --> 00:56:54,960
and dress and posing as census takers

1555
00:56:58,069 --> 00:56:55,839
and uh

1556
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:58,079
you know they would quickly flash an id

1557
00:57:01,829 --> 00:56:59,040
card

1558
00:57:03,990 --> 00:57:01,839
and find a way to get into the house and

1559
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:04,000
david start asking the typical questions

1560
00:57:06,710 --> 00:57:05,520
how many people live here how many

1561
00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:06,720
children

1562
00:57:12,789 --> 00:57:10,000
um etc etc what are your hobbies

1563
00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:12,799
um and then he got round to you know uh

1564
00:57:15,190 --> 00:57:13,359
as

1565
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:15,200
any strange things happened if he had

1566
00:57:19,829 --> 00:57:17,440
any paranormal activity that kind of

1567
00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:19,839
thing quite explicit questions like that

1568
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:21,760
and these were typically people who'd

1569
00:57:27,109 --> 00:57:24,319
had encounters with mothman

1570
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:27,119
or other weird phenomena in and around

1571
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:28,400
point pleasant in the

1572
00:57:33,670 --> 00:57:31,440
surrounding areas too and um

1573
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:33,680
and kale um actually called them uh

1574
00:57:37,829 --> 00:57:35,680
phantom census takers

1575
00:57:40,390 --> 00:57:37,839
and so although these reports aren't

1576
00:57:42,069 --> 00:57:40,400
sort of widely known and we actually

1577
00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:42,079
discussed them more deeply and he's a

1578
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:44,000
lot of his private correspondents

1579
00:57:47,829 --> 00:57:45,760
a lot of which you can find online now

1580
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:47,839
he's the junkyard.com

1581
00:57:52,390 --> 00:57:51,040
so a lot of it was admittedly um was

1582
00:57:53,990 --> 00:57:52,400
talked about more in his private

1583
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:54,000
correspondence and he actually was in

1584
00:57:58,390 --> 00:57:55,599
his published books

1585
00:57:59,750 --> 00:57:58,400
um but you know he was clear on the fact

1586
00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:59,760
that there was some sort of trend

1587
00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:01,599
going on here and they were they're

1588
00:58:06,950 --> 00:58:04,400
posing as i said census takers and as i

1589
00:58:08,950 --> 00:58:06,960
mentioned earlier as his secretary

1590
00:58:09,990 --> 00:58:08,960
things like this anywhere to sort of

1591
00:58:12,789 --> 00:58:10,000
find a way

1592
00:58:13,109 --> 00:58:12,799
into the homes of these people and um

1593
00:58:15,430 --> 00:58:13,119
but

1594
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:15,440
hardly any of them ironically given the

1595
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:16,880
theme of the movies hardly

1596
00:58:22,069 --> 00:58:20,319
any of them ever sounded you know human

1597
00:58:25,510 --> 00:58:22,079
really there was always something kind

1598
00:58:30,309 --> 00:58:28,789
um butcher sean you have questions

1599
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:30,319
well i'm just trying to piece together

1600
00:58:34,870 --> 00:58:32,720
if these women are black women in black

1601
00:58:35,990 --> 00:58:34,880
or more supernatural more

1602
00:58:38,789 --> 00:58:36,000
extraterrestrial

1603
00:58:40,710 --> 00:58:38,799
or you know what do you guys think well

1604
00:58:43,109 --> 00:58:40,720
that's actually a good question because

1605
00:58:46,549 --> 00:58:43,119
it actually really is difficult to say

1606
00:58:48,150 --> 00:58:46,559
what they are because you know

1607
00:58:49,750 --> 00:58:48,160
i think most people's perceptions of the

1608
00:58:51,190 --> 00:58:49,760
men in black at least come from the

1609
00:58:52,789 --> 00:58:51,200
movies you know where

1610
00:58:55,109 --> 00:58:52,799
will smith and tommy lee jones's

1611
00:58:56,870 --> 00:58:55,119
characters are government agents but

1612
00:58:59,030 --> 00:58:56,880
if you go back right to the days of

1613
00:58:59,589 --> 00:58:59,040
albert bender as i said they all look

1614
00:59:01,430 --> 00:58:59,599
weird

1615
00:59:03,109 --> 00:59:01,440
they all look really pale and odd and

1616
00:59:03,990 --> 00:59:03,119
have these large eyes and that's the

1617
00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:04,000
same with the women

1618
00:59:08,150 --> 00:59:06,480
as well so you know if you take

1619
00:59:09,510 --> 00:59:08,160
hollywood out of the picture we

1620
00:59:11,430 --> 00:59:09,520
we're dealing with something very

1621
00:59:14,470 --> 00:59:11,440
different now

1622
00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:14,480
the alien hybrid angle you know could be

1623
00:59:17,670 --> 00:59:15,280
a viable

1624
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:17,680
scenario but you're right there are

1625
00:59:21,750 --> 00:59:18,880
actually a lot of weird

1626
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:21,760
paranormal overtones for example um a

1627
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:23,280
number of people who

1628
00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:25,920
have been using ouija boards have

1629
00:59:29,910 --> 00:59:27,280
reported how

1630
00:59:31,109 --> 00:59:29,920
within like a day of their of using them

1631
00:59:32,549 --> 00:59:31,119
they've

1632
00:59:35,430 --> 00:59:32,559
woken up in the middle of the night sort

1633
00:59:38,230 --> 00:59:35,440
of two or three a.m to see this sort of

1634
00:59:39,670 --> 00:59:38,240
fedora wearing man in black standing

1635
00:59:40,950 --> 00:59:39,680
over him you know one of these so-called

1636
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:40,960
shadow people

1637
00:59:45,190 --> 00:59:43,440
um but it's you know like a shadow but

1638
00:59:46,710 --> 00:59:45,200
it looks like a man in black

1639
00:59:48,549 --> 00:59:46,720
um there are other cases where

1640
00:59:51,190 --> 00:59:48,559
particularly with the women in black

1641
00:59:52,069 --> 00:59:51,200
when people have got stood really close

1642
00:59:54,870 --> 00:59:52,079
to them

1643
00:59:56,549 --> 00:59:54,880
within a day or so also they've sort of

1644
00:59:58,390 --> 00:59:56,559
fallen sick we've

1645
01:00:00,230 --> 00:59:58,400
actually quite seriously serious

1646
01:00:02,390 --> 01:00:00,240
diseases and illnesses

1647
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:02,400
uh some of which you know required you

1648
01:00:05,910 --> 01:00:04,000
know emergency treatments and

1649
01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:05,920
with hindsight a lot of them felt they'd

1650
01:00:10,710 --> 01:00:07,440
almost been sort of like

1651
01:00:11,750 --> 01:00:10,720
supernaturally infected in some way by

1652
01:00:14,309 --> 01:00:11,760
them

1653
01:00:16,390 --> 01:00:14,319
i've got cases where people had the

1654
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:16,400
women in black in their homes

1655
01:00:21,430 --> 01:00:19,200
and after they left they started to get

1656
01:00:22,230 --> 01:00:21,440
sort of violent poltergeist activity in

1657
01:00:25,349 --> 01:00:22,240
the home

1658
01:00:28,309 --> 01:00:25,359
so it is it isn't like a

1659
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:28,319
difficult subject to kind of reconcile

1660
01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:30,000
because on the one hand

1661
01:00:34,470 --> 01:00:32,160
it seems like they're linked to nuts and

1662
01:00:36,549 --> 01:00:34,480
bolts ufology but on the other hand

1663
01:00:37,589 --> 01:00:36,559
you do have these supernatural aspects

1664
01:00:39,829 --> 01:00:37,599
as well which

1665
01:00:40,950 --> 01:00:39,839
is is difficult to explain how and why

1666
01:00:42,549 --> 01:00:40,960
that could be

1667
01:00:44,549 --> 01:00:42,559
yeah i mean as just a you know lay

1668
01:00:47,270 --> 01:00:44,559
person on some of these issues i just

1669
01:00:48,390 --> 01:00:47,280
some of these well beings i just have a

1670
01:00:50,230 --> 01:00:48,400
hard time you know with that

1671
01:00:51,589 --> 01:00:50,240
differentiation wherever they are

1672
01:00:53,990 --> 01:00:51,599
it's kind of like the grinning man you

1673
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:54,000
know around point pleasant that was seen

1674
01:00:58,390 --> 01:00:56,400
was that extraterrestrial or

1675
01:01:00,150 --> 01:00:58,400
or oh yeah a human or it was just a

1676
01:01:01,829 --> 01:01:00,160
weird being

1677
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:01,839
yeah i mean the grinning man has become

1678
01:01:05,510 --> 01:01:03,440
sort of a staple part of

1679
01:01:07,270 --> 01:01:05,520
paranormal research today but just

1680
01:01:09,109 --> 01:01:07,280
through the last few years but

1681
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:09,119
if you go back to the 60s you know he

1682
01:01:13,349 --> 01:01:11,359
had this creepy character around point

1683
01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:13,359
pleasant named indrid cold

1684
01:01:17,190 --> 01:01:15,599
who people often described as having

1685
01:01:19,030 --> 01:01:17,200
this he was grinning but it

1686
01:01:21,109 --> 01:01:19,040
wasn't like a pleasant grin you know

1687
01:01:21,990 --> 01:01:21,119
like a serial killer green that kind of

1688
01:01:24,870 --> 01:01:22,000
thing

1689
01:01:25,829 --> 01:01:24,880
um and again you know that there's just

1690
01:01:28,470 --> 01:01:25,839
something not

1691
01:01:29,990 --> 01:01:28,480
kind of right about these beings there's

1692
01:01:31,510 --> 01:01:30,000
always something strange about them

1693
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:31,520
that's noticeable

1694
01:01:36,710 --> 01:01:34,160
um and again they kind of straddle

1695
01:01:38,950 --> 01:01:36,720
ufology but they straddle the field of

1696
01:01:40,470 --> 01:01:38,960
the occult the supernatural the

1697
01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:40,480
paranormal as well

1698
01:01:43,910 --> 01:01:42,480
so you know that obviously begs the

1699
01:01:46,789 --> 01:01:43,920
question does that mean that

1700
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:46,799
the entire ufo subject is sort of more

1701
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:48,960
supernaturally based than it is

1702
01:01:53,030 --> 01:01:51,119
you know extraterrestrial i guess you

1703
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:53,040
know we got a lot of questions still

1704
01:01:56,710 --> 01:01:56,000
but not many answers even 50 years you

1705
01:01:58,950 --> 01:01:56,720
know after

1706
01:02:00,549 --> 01:01:58,960
mothman first surfaced really and 60

1707
01:02:03,910 --> 01:02:00,559
something years after bender

1708
01:02:06,950 --> 01:02:05,430
yeah she's incredibly fascinating like

1709
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:06,960
these all all these kind of

1710
01:02:10,069 --> 01:02:08,880
these beings you know even the men in

1711
01:02:13,029 --> 01:02:10,079
black themselves

1712
01:02:13,829 --> 01:02:13,039
you know quote-unquote government agents

1713
01:02:16,710 --> 01:02:13,839
that are

1714
01:02:17,589 --> 01:02:16,720
really don't come across as being quite

1715
01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:17,599
human

1716
01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:20,640
i mean a lot of these beings just share

1717
01:02:24,789 --> 01:02:22,559
so many kind of

1718
01:02:25,670 --> 01:02:24,799
i guess personality characteristics that

1719
01:02:28,390 --> 01:02:25,680
it's just

1720
01:02:31,510 --> 01:02:28,400
it's hard to lump them into one category

1721
01:02:33,510 --> 01:02:31,520
but they're so similar in some respects

1722
01:02:34,870 --> 01:02:33,520
yeah well i mean you know we've got the

1723
01:02:36,950 --> 01:02:34,880
men in black and the women

1724
01:02:38,789 --> 01:02:36,960
women in black you know the black eyed

1725
01:02:41,029 --> 01:02:38,799
children actually quite similar in the

1726
01:02:42,950 --> 01:02:41,039
same way that they come out at night

1727
01:02:44,549 --> 01:02:42,960
they mainly dress in black but black

1728
01:02:46,630 --> 01:02:44,559
hoodies um

1729
01:02:48,309 --> 01:02:46,640
so you know where as the men in black

1730
01:02:50,309 --> 01:02:48,319
wear black fedoras

1731
01:02:52,390 --> 01:02:50,319
the women wear these black long black

1732
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:52,400
wigs the black eyed children there's

1733
01:02:55,270 --> 01:02:53,280
also like a

1734
01:02:56,870 --> 01:02:55,280
hat slash head component with them you

1735
01:02:59,109 --> 01:02:56,880
know with the black hoodie

1736
01:03:00,870 --> 01:02:59,119
they all three of them have the very

1737
01:03:02,950 --> 01:03:00,880
pale skin

1738
01:03:05,430 --> 01:03:02,960
and in some cases you know the women in

1739
01:03:07,750 --> 01:03:05,440
black have the black eyes

1740
01:03:09,190 --> 01:03:07,760
um and all three of them try and find

1741
01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:09,200
ways into the house but what's

1742
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:10,160
interesting

1743
01:03:14,309 --> 01:03:12,720
is that in nearly every case of the

1744
01:03:15,589 --> 01:03:14,319
black-eyed children the men in black and

1745
01:03:18,150 --> 01:03:15,599
the women in black

1746
01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:18,160
they almost like try and mind control

1747
01:03:21,190 --> 01:03:18,880
the person

1748
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:21,200
into inviting them in they never force

1749
01:03:23,990 --> 01:03:22,319
their way in

1750
01:03:25,990 --> 01:03:24,000
particularly the black-eyed children you

1751
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:26,000
know you get reports where they say

1752
01:03:30,309 --> 01:03:28,640
we're lost can we come in or will you

1753
01:03:32,069 --> 01:03:30,319
let us come in um

1754
01:03:33,349 --> 01:03:32,079
or you know we're homeless can we have

1755
01:03:35,510 --> 01:03:33,359
some food

1756
01:03:36,789 --> 01:03:35,520
can you please invite us in and that's

1757
01:03:38,470 --> 01:03:36,799
what the women in black and the men in

1758
01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:38,480
black do they stand patiently on the

1759
01:03:40,950 --> 01:03:39,440
doorstep

1760
01:03:44,150 --> 01:03:40,960
and the witnesses have actually said

1761
01:03:45,510 --> 01:03:44,160
they felt compelled almost to invite

1762
01:03:47,589 --> 01:03:45,520
them in you know it sort of

1763
01:03:49,109 --> 01:03:47,599
parallels the old vampire legends where

1764
01:03:51,109 --> 01:03:49,119
they have to be invited

1765
01:03:52,870 --> 01:03:51,119
but you know there's others those three

1766
01:03:54,789 --> 01:03:52,880
then we have the shadow people

1767
01:03:56,870 --> 01:03:54,799
which are similar because there's this

1768
01:03:57,510 --> 01:03:56,880
one sort of sub category of the shadow

1769
01:04:00,150 --> 01:03:57,520
people

1770
01:04:01,430 --> 01:04:00,160
known as the hatman a friend of mine

1771
01:04:03,750 --> 01:04:01,440
heidi hollis wrote a book

1772
01:04:05,029 --> 01:04:03,760
called the hat man all about that and um

1773
01:04:07,750 --> 01:04:05,039
and the hat man looks

1774
01:04:10,630 --> 01:04:07,760
like a shadow version of the of a man in

1775
01:04:13,270 --> 01:04:10,640
black you know with the old star fedora

1776
01:04:15,270 --> 01:04:13,280
then you've got the grinning man and

1777
01:04:17,190 --> 01:04:15,280
some people talk about the

1778
01:04:19,109 --> 01:04:17,200
the so-called slenderman which actually

1779
01:04:22,150 --> 01:04:19,119
started off as like an internet

1780
01:04:23,910 --> 01:04:22,160
fantasy story and then the theory is now

1781
01:04:24,789 --> 01:04:23,920
so many people believe in it that it's

1782
01:04:26,789 --> 01:04:24,799
sort of

1783
01:04:28,950 --> 01:04:26,799
almost like supernaturally come to life

1784
01:04:31,349 --> 01:04:28,960
but that's described as like this pale

1785
01:04:32,309 --> 01:04:31,359
tall spindly character that wears a

1786
01:04:35,029 --> 01:04:32,319
black suit

1787
01:04:36,390 --> 01:04:35,039
white shirt and a skinny black tie so

1788
01:04:39,589 --> 01:04:36,400
you know you can find

1789
01:04:41,990 --> 01:04:39,599
a lot of surprising parallels between

1790
01:04:43,670 --> 01:04:42,000
all of these different phenomena that in

1791
01:04:45,270 --> 01:04:43,680
some way may be sort of all

1792
01:04:47,990 --> 01:04:45,280
interconnected if we could understand

1793
01:04:51,430 --> 01:04:49,670
you know the empire comparison was kind

1794
01:04:52,789 --> 01:04:51,440
of neat you know with the like you said

1795
01:04:56,069 --> 01:04:52,799
the invitation

1796
01:04:58,390 --> 01:04:56,079
they need to be invited in and

1797
01:04:59,430 --> 01:04:58,400
that's kind that's a common theme and

1798
01:05:00,950 --> 01:04:59,440
it's very

1799
01:05:02,870 --> 01:05:00,960
i don't know because then it adds

1800
01:05:04,390 --> 01:05:02,880
another dimension or is there something

1801
01:05:05,430 --> 01:05:04,400
more along those lines

1802
01:05:07,510 --> 01:05:05,440
i don't know i'm gonna bang my head

1803
01:05:09,270 --> 01:05:07,520
against the wall in a second well

1804
01:05:12,390 --> 01:05:09,280
actually

1805
01:05:13,270 --> 01:05:12,400
parallel as well you know in the old

1806
01:05:15,349 --> 01:05:13,280
legends

1807
01:05:17,109 --> 01:05:15,359
the vampires would you know suck the

1808
01:05:17,990 --> 01:05:17,119
blood out of people and and leave on

1809
01:05:20,549 --> 01:05:18,000
blood

1810
01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:20,559
um but in a lot of these women in black

1811
01:05:24,950 --> 01:05:22,720
stories and men in black stories

1812
01:05:26,630 --> 01:05:24,960
when they're in the home of the person

1813
01:05:27,349 --> 01:05:26,640
and the person's in almost like this

1814
01:05:29,430 --> 01:05:27,359
dazed

1815
01:05:31,109 --> 01:05:29,440
mind controlled state and you know

1816
01:05:34,230 --> 01:05:31,119
enslaved almost

1817
01:05:36,390 --> 01:05:34,240
um they've started to feel like weak

1818
01:05:38,230 --> 01:05:36,400
and shaky you know that literally get

1819
01:05:39,510 --> 01:05:38,240
the shakes and they feel weak and cold

1820
01:05:42,870 --> 01:05:39,520
and clammy

1821
01:05:44,789 --> 01:05:42,880
and um they've described it as feeling

1822
01:05:46,309 --> 01:05:44,799
as if they were being drained of energy

1823
01:05:48,950 --> 01:05:46,319
so you know like in the old legends i

1824
01:05:50,950 --> 01:05:48,960
said the vampire's dryness of blood

1825
01:05:52,710 --> 01:05:50,960
a lot of the witnesses to the women in

1826
01:05:53,670 --> 01:05:52,720
black particularly felt they were being

1827
01:05:56,390 --> 01:05:53,680
drained of like

1828
01:05:57,910 --> 01:05:56,400
energy or drained of their life force um

1829
01:06:01,109 --> 01:05:57,920
one described it

1830
01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:01,119
a guy who's diabetic described it as how

1831
01:06:04,870 --> 01:06:03,119
he felt on a couple of times when he had

1832
01:06:05,910 --> 01:06:04,880
like a diabetic crash you know he'd

1833
01:06:07,589 --> 01:06:05,920
missed

1834
01:06:09,589 --> 01:06:07,599
lunch or dinner or whatever and then

1835
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:09,599
started to you know feel sick and get

1836
01:06:13,270 --> 01:06:10,720
the shakes and

1837
01:06:15,349 --> 01:06:13,280
asked to eat that's how they felt in

1838
01:06:18,069 --> 01:06:15,359
many cases that they were

1839
01:06:19,990 --> 01:06:18,079
they were losing their physical body

1840
01:06:21,990 --> 01:06:20,000
energy or their life force so you know

1841
01:06:23,990 --> 01:06:22,000
in that sense there's the idea that

1842
01:06:26,870 --> 01:06:24,000
they're sort of um

1843
01:06:27,750 --> 01:06:26,880
not blood drinking vampires but sort of

1844
01:06:32,390 --> 01:06:27,760
energy

1845
01:06:33,670 --> 01:06:32,400
draining vampires

1846
01:06:36,870 --> 01:06:33,680
you know i was looking at your

1847
01:06:39,589 --> 01:06:36,880
bibliography and i just realized

1848
01:06:42,309 --> 01:06:39,599
that our friend tim beckley actually

1849
01:06:46,549 --> 01:06:42,319
wrote a book with truman bethram

1850
01:06:50,150 --> 01:06:46,559
the people of planet clarion but 1970.

1851
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:50,160
that yeah i know that yeah i think what

1852
01:06:52,549 --> 01:06:52,079
i think tim did the intro or something

1853
01:06:56,390 --> 01:06:52,559
and

1854
01:06:58,230 --> 01:06:56,400
yeah that's what i mentioned about

1855
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:58,240
bathroom he actually did like four or

1856
01:07:01,910 --> 01:06:59,280
five

1857
01:07:03,750 --> 01:07:01,920
small self-published or you know with a

1858
01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:03,760
small publication run

1859
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:05,920
other books that are far less known he's

1860
01:07:09,109 --> 01:07:07,200
um

1861
01:07:10,390 --> 01:07:09,119
his first book a border flying saucer

1862
01:07:12,870 --> 01:07:10,400
was published by a big

1863
01:07:14,230 --> 01:07:12,880
new york company actually but the other

1864
01:07:16,069 --> 01:07:14,240
ones um

1865
01:07:18,390 --> 01:07:16,079
you know they weren't but they're no

1866
01:07:19,029 --> 01:07:18,400
less interested and important you know a

1867
01:07:21,270 --> 01:07:19,039
lot of them

1868
01:07:23,109 --> 01:07:21,280
some of them were like spiral-bound ones

1869
01:07:23,750 --> 01:07:23,119
that he put out just 50 copies you know

1870
01:07:25,670 --> 01:07:23,760
which are

1871
01:07:27,750 --> 01:07:25,680
sort of really rare nowadays but yeah

1872
01:07:30,069 --> 01:07:27,760
tim did a good job of um

1873
01:07:32,549 --> 01:07:30,079
compiling all that material and you know

1874
01:07:34,150 --> 01:07:32,559
putting it out

1875
01:07:36,069 --> 01:07:34,160
i thought it was interesting where one

1876
01:07:39,270 --> 01:07:36,079
witnessed who had

1877
01:07:40,069 --> 01:07:39,280
actually was working for the publisher

1878
01:07:43,510 --> 01:07:40,079
of uh

1879
01:07:46,630 --> 01:07:43,520
whitney street uh communion

1880
01:07:47,750 --> 01:07:46,640
actually saw one of these uh women in

1881
01:07:49,750 --> 01:07:47,760
black or

1882
01:07:53,829 --> 01:07:49,760
some one of these beings in the

1883
01:07:55,670 --> 01:07:53,839
bookstore kind of speed reading the book

1884
01:07:57,349 --> 01:07:55,680
yeah that's that's one of the creepiest

1885
01:07:59,750 --> 01:07:57,359
stories in the book it involves a guy

1886
01:08:02,950 --> 01:07:59,760
named bruce lee who was a

1887
01:08:04,870 --> 01:08:02,960
senior um employee at uh

1888
01:08:06,230 --> 01:08:04,880
william morrow the company that's put

1889
01:08:09,109 --> 01:08:06,240
out um

1890
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:09,119
whitley streber's 1987 book communion

1891
01:08:11,270 --> 01:08:10,559
yeah which actually became you know one

1892
01:08:14,549 --> 01:08:11,280
of the

1893
01:08:17,189 --> 01:08:14,559
biggest selling most popular um

1894
01:08:17,910 --> 01:08:17,199
ufo books ever you know the massive

1895
01:08:21,269 --> 01:08:17,920
seller

1896
01:08:24,630 --> 01:08:21,279
not just he actually became

1897
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:24,640
a new york times um bestseller

1898
01:08:29,030 --> 01:08:27,359
so you know in that sense it was um you

1899
01:08:31,430 --> 01:08:29,040
know very important book

1900
01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:31,440
now the story gets into sort of very

1901
01:08:36,229 --> 01:08:32,319
weird

1902
01:08:36,709 --> 01:08:36,239
um aspects when as i mentioned uh bruce

1903
01:08:39,430 --> 01:08:36,719
lee

1904
01:08:41,430 --> 01:08:39,440
and his wife in january 1987 and what

1905
01:08:44,950 --> 01:08:41,440
was a very sort of wintry cold day

1906
01:08:46,870 --> 01:08:44,960
they went into um a bookstore in uh

1907
01:08:48,789 --> 01:08:46,880
manhattan which is now closed down

1908
01:08:50,070 --> 01:08:48,799
it's actually called wombrats or it was

1909
01:08:53,189 --> 01:08:50,080
called one wraths

1910
01:08:54,390 --> 01:08:53,199
and um because they got a display of

1911
01:08:56,709 --> 01:08:54,400
communion in there

1912
01:08:58,390 --> 01:08:56,719
and uh lee himself was actually an

1913
01:08:59,990 --> 01:08:58,400
author and they got some of his books

1914
01:09:02,070 --> 01:09:00,000
you know like most authors he wanted to

1915
01:09:03,269 --> 01:09:02,080
go and see if they're on display and how

1916
01:09:06,550 --> 01:09:03,279
they were selling

1917
01:09:08,630 --> 01:09:06,560
and he went over to the community stand

1918
01:09:09,990 --> 01:09:08,640
and there were these sort of strange

1919
01:09:11,669 --> 01:09:10,000
shorts

1920
01:09:13,349 --> 01:09:11,679
couple there one was a man one was a

1921
01:09:15,590 --> 01:09:13,359
woman and

1922
01:09:17,510 --> 01:09:15,600
they had these hats on that were pulled

1923
01:09:20,709 --> 01:09:17,520
down low

1924
01:09:22,149 --> 01:09:20,719
scarves sunglasses and

1925
01:09:24,630 --> 01:09:22,159
you know really so to where you could

1926
01:09:26,229 --> 01:09:24,640
barely see anything about them at all

1927
01:09:28,149 --> 01:09:26,239
and they were talking to each other and

1928
01:09:29,430 --> 01:09:28,159
sort of giggling in this really sort of

1929
01:09:31,510 --> 01:09:29,440
sinister way

1930
01:09:32,709 --> 01:09:31,520
saying how strieber had got this wrong

1931
01:09:35,269 --> 01:09:32,719
and got that wrong

1932
01:09:35,990 --> 01:09:35,279
and because presley i was a senior

1933
01:09:38,229 --> 01:09:36,000
editor

1934
01:09:39,829 --> 01:09:38,239
at the publisher of the book you know he

1935
01:09:40,550 --> 01:09:39,839
said well what's wrong with it you know

1936
01:09:44,229 --> 01:09:40,560
on the

1937
01:09:46,309 --> 01:09:44,239
woman actually turned to him with this

1938
01:09:50,470 --> 01:09:46,319
sort of really menacing look which

1939
01:09:53,269 --> 01:09:50,480
um and um bruce lee said it looked like

1940
01:09:53,910 --> 01:09:53,279
the shed on her face was kind of like um

1941
01:09:56,870 --> 01:09:53,920
a dog

1942
01:09:57,189 --> 01:09:56,880
doesn't know you and it's ready to sort

1943
01:10:01,189 --> 01:09:57,199
of

1944
01:10:02,790 --> 01:10:01,199
bite or snap and

1945
01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:02,800
he said she you know she didn't like the

1946
01:10:06,870 --> 01:10:04,960
sort of mad dog look on the thing

1947
01:10:08,149 --> 01:10:06,880
and as she looked at him and he looked

1948
01:10:08,870 --> 01:10:08,159
at her he could see these sort of

1949
01:10:11,030 --> 01:10:08,880
enormous

1950
01:10:12,630 --> 01:10:11,040
big almond eyes hidden behind the

1951
01:10:14,950 --> 01:10:12,640
glasses

1952
01:10:17,669 --> 01:10:14,960
and what's really interesting is that

1953
01:10:20,630 --> 01:10:17,679
the discussion of the man and the woman

1954
01:10:22,630 --> 01:10:20,640
you know in black tint to each other and

1955
01:10:25,030 --> 01:10:22,640
being very hostile

1956
01:10:26,709 --> 01:10:25,040
actually almost identical to what truman

1957
01:10:29,590 --> 01:10:26,719
bathroom said about

1958
01:10:30,390 --> 01:10:29,600
the aura reigns and the man that he met

1959
01:10:32,790 --> 01:10:30,400
in the

1960
01:10:34,310 --> 01:10:32,800
diner it almost sounds like you've been

1961
01:10:35,990 --> 01:10:34,320
them you know they were short they were

1962
01:10:37,350 --> 01:10:36,000
camouflaged they were hostile they

1963
01:10:39,510 --> 01:10:37,360
didn't want to talk

1964
01:10:41,189 --> 01:10:39,520
um but bruce lee's story is a really

1965
01:10:44,630 --> 01:10:41,199
weird one you know these

1966
01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:44,640
almost like dangerous entities checking

1967
01:10:48,630 --> 01:10:45,520
out the book

1968
01:10:54,149 --> 01:10:48,640
and they didn't even seem human you know

1969
01:11:01,030 --> 01:10:57,910
do you know of any instances where

1970
01:11:04,149 --> 01:11:01,040
the wib or the mib

1971
01:11:08,790 --> 01:11:04,159
ever get involved in any type of cryptid

1972
01:11:13,030 --> 01:11:11,110
yeah well i mean obviously you know

1973
01:11:15,030 --> 01:11:13,040
probably the most famous example

1974
01:11:17,510 --> 01:11:15,040
is uh mothman you know a lot of the

1975
01:11:20,070 --> 01:11:17,520
mothman witnesses were visited by

1976
01:11:21,830 --> 01:11:20,080
mib and women in black but there are

1977
01:11:23,669 --> 01:11:21,840
some lesser-known ones i mean

1978
01:11:25,830 --> 01:11:23,679
uh stan gordon's a good friend of mine

1979
01:11:28,950 --> 01:11:25,840
and he's booked silent invasion

1980
01:11:32,149 --> 01:11:28,960
talks about a number of cases where um

1981
01:11:33,910 --> 01:11:32,159
bigfoot witnesses were visited by

1982
01:11:35,910 --> 01:11:33,920
men in black now in some of those cases

1983
01:11:37,750 --> 01:11:35,920
if you read stan's silent invasion book

1984
01:11:39,830 --> 01:11:37,760
they actually sound more like

1985
01:11:42,149 --> 01:11:39,840
regular military personnel who may have

1986
01:11:43,189 --> 01:11:42,159
had some interest in the subject for

1987
01:11:45,910 --> 01:11:43,199
whatever reason

1988
01:11:47,669 --> 01:11:45,920
you know we don't know but um i've got

1989
01:11:48,470 --> 01:11:47,679
i've got a couple of weird cases from

1990
01:11:50,709 --> 01:11:48,480
the uk

1991
01:11:53,830 --> 01:11:50,719
where we have a lot of these so-called

1992
01:11:56,149 --> 01:11:53,840
alien big cats or abcs as they're known

1993
01:11:58,149 --> 01:11:56,159
where people see these large black

1994
01:11:59,910 --> 01:11:58,159
cats like the size of mountain lions

1995
01:12:01,430 --> 01:11:59,920
roaming around the uk and you know there

1996
01:12:02,709 --> 01:12:01,440
shouldn't be anything like that in the

1997
01:12:04,310 --> 01:12:02,719
uk at all

1998
01:12:07,030 --> 01:12:04,320
um you know biggest cats we have in the

1999
01:12:08,950 --> 01:12:07,040
uk are house cats you know pet cats

2000
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:08,960
there is a one called the scottish

2001
01:12:13,669 --> 01:12:11,520
wildcats which is quite ferocious

2002
01:12:14,550 --> 01:12:13,679
and give you a nasty scratch or bite but

2003
01:12:16,470 --> 01:12:14,560
they're really not

2004
01:12:19,510 --> 01:12:16,480
i think any bigger than another cat they

2005
01:12:21,270 --> 01:12:19,520
just live wild so you know they act wild

2006
01:12:22,630 --> 01:12:21,280
but no one could you know mistake one of

2007
01:12:23,669 --> 01:12:22,640
those for something the size of a

2008
01:12:26,229 --> 01:12:23,679
mountain lion

2009
01:12:28,229 --> 01:12:26,239
but people see these things but often

2010
01:12:29,189 --> 01:12:28,239
they're seen around like graveyards

2011
01:12:31,510 --> 01:12:29,199
cemeteries

2012
01:12:32,229 --> 01:12:31,520
old stone circles that kind of thing as

2013
01:12:34,470 --> 01:12:32,239
if they have a

2014
01:12:37,189 --> 01:12:34,480
paranormal component to them and i've

2015
01:12:38,630 --> 01:12:37,199
got a number of cases on record

2016
01:12:40,709 --> 01:12:38,640
but which i have to talk about in the

2017
01:12:42,550 --> 01:12:40,719
book where people have seen

2018
01:12:44,790 --> 01:12:42,560
they have big cats and they've been

2019
01:12:45,350 --> 01:12:44,800
visited by women in black i think the

2020
01:12:47,590 --> 01:12:45,360
earliest

2021
01:12:48,390 --> 01:12:47,600
i got in the book is from the 1950s a

2022
01:12:52,310 --> 01:12:48,400
woman

2023
01:12:55,669 --> 01:12:52,320
seeing one of these

2024
01:12:58,390 --> 01:12:55,679
large black cats um and i've also got a

2025
01:13:01,030 --> 01:12:58,400
story in the book of a guy named colin

2026
01:13:03,270 --> 01:13:01,040
perks who in 2001

2027
01:13:04,790 --> 01:13:03,280
claimed to have been visited by this

2028
01:13:08,390 --> 01:13:04,800
sort of actually quite

2029
01:13:10,709 --> 01:13:08,400
beautiful woman in black um

2030
01:13:11,990 --> 01:13:10,719
after he been uh looking into the

2031
01:13:13,830 --> 01:13:12,000
legends surrounding

2032
01:13:15,270 --> 01:13:13,840
king arthur that was his big interest

2033
01:13:18,149 --> 01:13:15,280
like the mythology and

2034
01:13:19,430 --> 01:13:18,159
archaeology found in king arthur and he

2035
01:13:21,990 --> 01:13:19,440
claimed that

2036
01:13:23,110 --> 01:13:22,000
she warned him of his research away from

2037
01:13:26,310 --> 01:13:23,120
his research

2038
01:13:28,149 --> 01:13:26,320
for obscure reasons and uh

2039
01:13:29,510 --> 01:13:28,159
with hindsight he came to believe she

2040
01:13:32,070 --> 01:13:29,520
was like a definitive

2041
01:13:33,350 --> 01:13:32,080
woman in black who was somehow linked to

2042
01:13:35,750 --> 01:13:33,360
the phenomenon

2043
01:13:37,430 --> 01:13:35,760
um you know essentially warned him to to

2044
01:13:38,149 --> 01:13:37,440
stay away and he said although she was

2045
01:13:41,030 --> 01:13:38,159
sort of

2046
01:13:42,470 --> 01:13:41,040
very beautiful she was very pale and

2047
01:13:45,510 --> 01:13:42,480
gave off this

2048
01:13:48,310 --> 01:13:45,520
you know um this sort of unsettling

2049
01:13:48,870 --> 01:13:48,320
vibe that's made him want to get away

2050
01:13:50,229 --> 01:13:48,880
from her

2051
01:13:53,270 --> 01:13:50,239
even though you know she was very

2052
01:13:59,990 --> 01:13:56,709
interesting but you got anything

2053
01:14:04,229 --> 01:14:00,000
yeah uh nick when did these reports on

2054
01:14:07,270 --> 01:14:04,239
the mibs and the women in black

2055
01:14:10,709 --> 01:14:07,280
reports were they pre-50s or

2056
01:14:11,669 --> 01:14:10,719
just around the 50s yeah that's a good

2057
01:14:14,070 --> 01:14:11,679
question because

2058
01:14:16,310 --> 01:14:14,080
most of the reports did begin in the

2059
01:14:18,070 --> 01:14:16,320
early 1950s now

2060
01:14:20,149 --> 01:14:18,080
and that it all really began then with

2061
01:14:23,590 --> 01:14:20,159
albert bender but the

2062
01:14:24,310 --> 01:14:23,600
controversial maury island case of 1947

2063
01:14:27,430 --> 01:14:24,320
where

2064
01:14:27,990 --> 01:14:27,440
this fleet of ufos was supposedly seen

2065
01:14:31,430 --> 01:14:28,000
over the

2066
01:14:32,310 --> 01:14:31,440
harbour at maury island in washington

2067
01:14:34,870 --> 01:14:32,320
state

2068
01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:34,880
one of the crafts supposedly exploded

2069
01:14:37,110 --> 01:14:35,360
and

2070
01:14:38,790 --> 01:14:37,120
showed all this wreckage down into the

2071
01:14:41,110 --> 01:14:38,800
harbor some of which was

2072
01:14:43,990 --> 01:14:41,120
reportedly collected by two men harold

2073
01:14:45,830 --> 01:14:44,000
dahl and fred christman and chrisman who

2074
01:14:47,910 --> 01:14:45,840
interestingly played quite a significant

2075
01:14:48,630 --> 01:14:47,920
role in the kennedy assassination as

2076
01:14:51,830 --> 01:14:48,640
well

2077
01:14:53,189 --> 01:14:51,840
um but there was a story of a man in

2078
01:14:57,030 --> 01:14:53,199
black dressed in black

2079
01:14:58,790 --> 01:14:57,040
having reportedly threatened

2080
01:15:00,149 --> 01:14:58,800
harold dahl and that he's for him and

2081
01:15:01,270 --> 01:15:00,159
his family would be killed if they ever

2082
01:15:04,229 --> 01:15:01,280
talked about it

2083
01:15:06,149 --> 01:15:04,239
so we do have that case now we can

2084
01:15:08,390 --> 01:15:06,159
actually take it back further

2085
01:15:09,510 --> 01:15:08,400
a friend of mine nigel wright who lives

2086
01:15:12,310 --> 01:15:09,520
in england nigel

2087
01:15:14,790 --> 01:15:12,320
was doing some research into old um

2088
01:15:15,510 --> 01:15:14,800
newspaper cuttings on ufos and strange

2089
01:15:18,709 --> 01:15:15,520
phenomena

2090
01:15:20,870 --> 01:15:18,719
and he found a report from 1913

2091
01:15:22,229 --> 01:15:20,880
i think it was or it's around about that

2092
01:15:24,790 --> 01:15:22,239
time when

2093
01:15:26,390 --> 01:15:24,800
um in one of the earliest cars in the uk

2094
01:15:29,510 --> 01:15:26,400
this black car turned up

2095
01:15:31,590 --> 01:15:29,520
at a docks area in uh

2096
01:15:32,550 --> 01:15:31,600
england and these three dock workers

2097
01:15:34,310 --> 01:15:32,560
were approached

2098
01:15:35,830 --> 01:15:34,320
by this black car and three bedding

2099
01:15:38,790 --> 01:15:35,840
black suits got out

2100
01:15:39,510 --> 01:15:38,800
and asked the guys if they'd seen any

2101
01:15:42,310 --> 01:15:39,520
unusual

2102
01:15:43,030 --> 01:15:42,320
airships flying over and they said well

2103
01:15:45,270 --> 01:15:43,040
no

2104
01:15:47,510 --> 01:15:45,280
and the these three men in black got

2105
01:15:49,910 --> 01:15:47,520
back in the black car and drove off

2106
01:15:51,830 --> 01:15:49,920
now there are actually some other cases

2107
01:15:52,870 --> 01:15:51,840
as well going back sort of five or six

2108
01:15:55,430 --> 01:15:52,880
hundred years

2109
01:15:57,350 --> 01:15:55,440
which relate to the subject of alchemy

2110
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:57,360
which is this sort of allegedly

2111
01:16:02,149 --> 01:16:00,239
magical ritual to turn what are called

2112
01:16:04,790 --> 01:16:02,159
base metals like tin

2113
01:16:06,229 --> 01:16:04,800
into precious metals like gold you know

2114
01:16:07,910 --> 01:16:06,239
and if you understood the

2115
01:16:09,270 --> 01:16:07,920
secrets of alchemy you could you know

2116
01:16:11,750 --> 01:16:09,280
create endless gold

2117
01:16:13,669 --> 01:16:11,760
you know you don't believe in alchemy um

2118
01:16:14,709 --> 01:16:13,679
what's interesting is that a number of

2119
01:16:17,510 --> 01:16:14,719
alchemists

2120
01:16:18,950 --> 01:16:17,520
who were who believed they were on sort

2121
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:18,960
of the the edge of

2122
01:16:22,950 --> 01:16:21,520
cracking the coders how to do this we're

2123
01:16:25,189 --> 01:16:22,960
actually visited

2124
01:16:26,310 --> 01:16:25,199
by what they described as dark men in

2125
01:16:28,229 --> 01:16:26,320
black now

2126
01:16:30,470 --> 01:16:28,239
they would sometimes turn up obviously

2127
01:16:33,110 --> 01:16:30,480
not in black cars but they would turn up

2128
01:16:34,550 --> 01:16:33,120
in a black horse drawn carriage pulled

2129
01:16:36,390 --> 01:16:34,560
by black horses

2130
01:16:38,390 --> 01:16:36,400
and they would turn off wearing like

2131
01:16:40,870 --> 01:16:38,400
long black cokes and

2132
01:16:42,870 --> 01:16:40,880
cloaks and the kind of clothes fitting

2133
01:16:44,390 --> 01:16:42,880
for that era

2134
01:16:46,229 --> 01:16:44,400
they weren't threatened as much it was

2135
01:16:48,709 --> 01:16:46,239
it was more along the lines of

2136
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:48,719
them actually sharing information but

2137
01:16:51,110 --> 01:16:49,920
you know

2138
01:16:53,270 --> 01:16:51,120
there isn't actually that much

2139
01:16:55,270 --> 01:16:53,280
difference between

2140
01:16:57,910 --> 01:16:55,280
today's world of the men in black

2141
01:17:00,709 --> 01:16:57,920
turning up in old style black cadillacs

2142
01:17:01,669 --> 01:17:00,719
and dressed in black and 500 years ago

2143
01:17:03,510 --> 01:17:01,679
you know it's

2144
01:17:05,590 --> 01:17:03,520
guys dressed in black cloaks turning up

2145
01:17:07,910 --> 01:17:05,600
in a black horse and carriage

2146
01:17:10,070 --> 01:17:07,920
you know it's it's as if the phenomenon

2147
01:17:12,550 --> 01:17:10,080
has always been with us but slightly

2148
01:17:13,590 --> 01:17:12,560
and subtly changes to suit the

2149
01:17:16,470 --> 01:17:13,600
perceptions of

2150
01:17:19,590 --> 01:17:16,480
you know the relevant era or whatever

2151
01:17:23,510 --> 01:17:21,110
so you can actually push the barriers

2152
01:17:25,270 --> 01:17:23,520
back a long way you know there's um

2153
01:17:26,630 --> 01:17:25,280
but i think it's only obviously been

2154
01:17:28,390 --> 01:17:26,640
since the 50s

2155
01:17:30,070 --> 01:17:28,400
that people have made an association

2156
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:30,080
with it being a real phenomenon

2157
01:17:33,510 --> 01:17:32,640
rather just sort of random events in

2158
01:17:34,870 --> 01:17:33,520
them

2159
01:17:36,470 --> 01:17:34,880
yeah well it's just like you know just

2160
01:17:38,870 --> 01:17:36,480
like the bipedal canines i mean you can

2161
01:17:40,709 --> 01:17:38,880
trace them all the way back to roman

2162
01:17:42,470 --> 01:17:40,719
yeah i mean yeah you know roman the

2163
01:17:44,229 --> 01:17:42,480
stories out of rome and greece and i

2164
01:17:47,270 --> 01:17:44,239
mean it just comes all the way through

2165
01:17:49,669 --> 01:17:47,280
to the history of the world yeah

2166
01:17:52,390 --> 01:17:49,679
yeah i think the trick is is to note

2167
01:17:53,750 --> 01:17:52,400
those connections you know and um

2168
01:17:55,669 --> 01:17:53,760
and then you realize it's like with the

2169
01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:55,679
women in black you realize they're not

2170
01:17:58,870 --> 01:17:57,600
just random cases with women who have to

2171
01:18:00,390 --> 01:17:58,880
be dressed in black it's like a

2172
01:18:01,750 --> 01:18:00,400
worldwide thing but

2173
01:18:04,070 --> 01:18:01,760
it's like having all the pieces of the

2174
01:18:05,590 --> 01:18:04,080
jigsaw at 200 pieces but they're all

2175
01:18:06,630 --> 01:18:05,600
scattered around the floor unless you

2176
01:18:08,229 --> 01:18:06,640
put them together

2177
01:18:14,709 --> 01:18:08,239
you're not going to see what the jigsaw

2178
01:18:19,030 --> 01:18:17,750
um we were talking about mac tony's

2179
01:18:22,229 --> 01:18:19,040
earlier

2180
01:18:24,229 --> 01:18:22,239
uh i i did want to mention the woman by

2181
01:18:27,110 --> 01:18:24,239
the name of karen totten

2182
01:18:27,910 --> 01:18:27,120
and some of the weird encounters she had

2183
01:18:29,830 --> 01:18:27,920
uh

2184
01:18:31,830 --> 01:18:29,840
especially when she was younger i guess

2185
01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:31,840
she had several encounters

2186
01:18:37,030 --> 01:18:35,040
with these wib

2187
01:18:39,110 --> 01:18:37,040
well yeah i mean karen was somebody who

2188
01:18:39,990 --> 01:18:39,120
i spoke to when i was when i was writing

2189
01:18:43,189 --> 01:18:40,000
the book

2190
01:18:45,270 --> 01:18:43,199
and uh i spoke to her and said you know

2191
01:18:46,870 --> 01:18:45,280
would it be okay to use your story in

2192
01:18:48,070 --> 01:18:46,880
the book and yeah said she was very

2193
01:18:50,709 --> 01:18:48,080
helpful and friendly you know and she

2194
01:18:51,270 --> 01:18:50,719
was happy for me to um use a story and

2195
01:18:52,950 --> 01:18:51,280
also

2196
01:18:55,189 --> 01:18:52,960
her photograph you know which people can

2197
01:18:55,830 --> 01:18:55,199
see in the book but she had sort of a

2198
01:18:59,590 --> 01:18:55,840
really

2199
01:19:00,950 --> 01:18:59,600
odd situation in the mid-1970s when she

2200
01:19:04,390 --> 01:19:00,960
was a teenager

2201
01:19:06,149 --> 01:19:04,400
working at a store and she saw this

2202
01:19:07,510 --> 01:19:06,159
woman came in essentially to buy a

2203
01:19:08,229 --> 01:19:07,520
packet of cigarettes but she was

2204
01:19:11,189 --> 01:19:08,239
extremely

2205
01:19:13,030 --> 01:19:11,199
pale and she was wearing like a thin

2206
01:19:15,030 --> 01:19:13,040
black coat like like a kind of

2207
01:19:16,310 --> 01:19:15,040
raincoat that sort of thing and the

2208
01:19:17,990 --> 01:19:16,320
collar was turned up as

2209
01:19:19,669 --> 01:19:18,000
you know as high as it would go to cover

2210
01:19:21,590 --> 01:19:19,679
her neck and she had

2211
01:19:23,110 --> 01:19:21,600
like long hair long black hair but it

2212
01:19:25,830 --> 01:19:23,120
was clearly a wig

2213
01:19:27,669 --> 01:19:25,840
and also like so many of the other women

2214
01:19:30,630 --> 01:19:27,679
in black as well these large black

2215
01:19:31,830 --> 01:19:30,640
huge actually black sunglasses and she

2216
01:19:34,550 --> 01:19:31,840
had an extremely

2217
01:19:34,950 --> 01:19:34,560
pointed chin and her lips were almost

2218
01:19:44,229 --> 01:19:34,960
like

2219
01:19:45,990 --> 01:19:44,239
you know if you removed the wig and

2220
01:19:49,270 --> 01:19:46,000
removed the glasses and the

2221
01:19:50,709 --> 01:19:49,280
upturned collar and everything else

2222
01:19:52,390 --> 01:19:50,719
you could make a good case that you

2223
01:19:54,950 --> 01:19:52,400
wouldn't not she wouldn't look not

2224
01:19:56,070 --> 01:19:54,960
unlike the so-called greys of ufology

2225
01:19:57,750 --> 01:19:56,080
you know and uh

2226
01:20:00,229 --> 01:19:57,760
but one of the weird things that karen

2227
01:20:02,550 --> 01:20:00,239
said was that it was as if part of the

2228
01:20:05,270 --> 01:20:02,560
experience with the woman in the store

2229
01:20:06,950 --> 01:20:05,280
had been blanked out and in some ways

2230
01:20:10,149 --> 01:20:06,960
that was sort of connected to

2231
01:20:11,590 --> 01:20:10,159
um her hand that um she

2232
01:20:14,470 --> 01:20:11,600
can't remember there was something

2233
01:20:17,270 --> 01:20:14,480
unusual about her hand but it was if

2234
01:20:18,310 --> 01:20:17,280
she'd somehow been made to forget about

2235
01:20:20,070 --> 01:20:18,320
it you know it's all

2236
01:20:23,189 --> 01:20:20,080
like a screen memory it sort of blocked

2237
01:20:27,669 --> 01:20:26,310
i i did want to mention before we finish

2238
01:20:30,950 --> 01:20:27,679
tonight about

2239
01:20:32,629 --> 01:20:30,960
your uh newest book the monster book uh

2240
01:20:33,990 --> 01:20:32,639
the creatures beasts and fiends of

2241
01:20:36,149 --> 01:20:34,000
nature i tell you

2242
01:20:37,430 --> 01:20:36,159
that is an excellent reference that's

2243
01:20:40,310 --> 01:20:37,440
got a lot of

2244
01:20:42,470 --> 01:20:40,320
stuff in there it's really fascinating

2245
01:20:45,669 --> 01:20:42,480
you took a lot of mythology

2246
01:20:48,629 --> 01:20:45,679
and kind of put a twist to it

2247
01:20:49,750 --> 01:20:48,639
and uh i mean it's just not it's just

2248
01:20:52,870 --> 01:20:49,760
like crypt for

2249
01:20:55,030 --> 01:20:52,880
the zoologist it's for uh any

2250
01:20:57,510 --> 01:20:55,040
basically anybody that's interested in

2251
01:20:57,910 --> 01:20:57,520
supernatural beings and the mythology of

2252
01:21:00,870 --> 01:20:57,920
them

2253
01:21:02,709 --> 01:21:00,880
my son calls it really cool no that's

2254
01:21:04,870 --> 01:21:02,719
not great that's good for now thanks

2255
01:21:06,390 --> 01:21:04,880
but yeah that book i do a lot of books

2256
01:21:08,149 --> 01:21:06,400
for visible ink press and they're also

2257
01:21:09,189 --> 01:21:08,159
the same format where it's like 200

2258
01:21:12,070 --> 01:21:09,199
entries

2259
01:21:13,830 --> 01:21:12,080
um and like 150 000 words and they're

2260
01:21:15,270 --> 01:21:13,840
all sort of a to z star which you know i

2261
01:21:17,510 --> 01:21:15,280
enjoy doing those but

2262
01:21:19,189 --> 01:21:17,520
i didn't want to just sort of do you

2263
01:21:21,430 --> 01:21:19,199
know the sort of so-called usual

2264
01:21:21,990 --> 01:21:21,440
suspects you know mothman bigfoot the

2265
01:21:23,910 --> 01:21:22,000
yeti

2266
01:21:26,470 --> 01:21:23,920
nessie you've got to include those

2267
01:21:28,950 --> 01:21:26,480
obviously but i wanted to just also

2268
01:21:30,709 --> 01:21:28,960
point out a lot of cases that were

2269
01:21:32,470 --> 01:21:30,719
really obscure but also really

2270
01:21:34,790 --> 01:21:32,480
interesting like the

2271
01:21:36,070 --> 01:21:34,800
the oklahoma octopus and the blade and

2272
01:21:39,110 --> 01:21:36,080
boro vampire

2273
01:21:40,870 --> 01:21:39,120
and um you know things that most people

2274
01:21:43,430 --> 01:21:40,880
probably haven't heard of but would find

2275
01:21:46,070 --> 01:21:43,440
to be really cool stories and also

2276
01:21:47,750 --> 01:21:46,080
you know tie in with some mythological

2277
01:21:50,390 --> 01:21:47,760
creatures that may have a basis in

2278
01:21:53,110 --> 01:21:50,400
reality you know things like um

2279
01:21:54,629 --> 01:21:53,120
the cyclops or the minotaur things like

2280
01:21:57,830 --> 01:21:54,639
that you know where

2281
01:21:59,430 --> 01:21:57,840
um they sound sort of folkloric but

2282
01:22:01,350 --> 01:21:59,440
could there actually be a legitimate

2283
01:22:03,110 --> 01:22:01,360
creature that was responsible

2284
01:22:05,350 --> 01:22:03,120
for the legend so it sort of covers

2285
01:22:08,310 --> 01:22:05,360
everything from flying monsters you know

2286
01:22:09,430 --> 01:22:08,320
like mothman and reports of surviving

2287
01:22:12,950 --> 01:22:09,440
pterodactyls

2288
01:22:15,750 --> 01:22:12,960
to lake monsters river monsters you know

2289
01:22:17,910 --> 01:22:15,760
um the chinese equivalent of bigfoot the

2290
01:22:19,990 --> 01:22:17,920
australian equivalents and

2291
01:22:21,830 --> 01:22:20,000
yeah anything that mongolian deathworm

2292
01:22:24,870 --> 01:22:21,840
you know anything that's a bit weird and

2293
01:22:26,870 --> 01:22:24,880
monstrous hopefully he's in there so

2294
01:22:28,709 --> 01:22:26,880
well i tell you it's a great point of

2295
01:22:31,110 --> 01:22:28,719
reference for me for writing the blog

2296
01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:31,120
because i can i can see something in

2297
01:22:35,350 --> 01:22:32,880
there that i haven't written about

2298
01:22:36,550 --> 01:22:35,360
and then i'm going to research it deeply

2299
01:22:38,790 --> 01:22:36,560
and it is

2300
01:22:40,629 --> 01:22:38,800
it's it's one of the better point

2301
01:22:43,510 --> 01:22:40,639
references i've i've ever had

2302
01:22:45,430 --> 01:22:43,520
so i really appreciate it it's a very

2303
01:22:48,629 --> 01:22:45,440
fascinating book

2304
01:22:50,149 --> 01:22:48,639
oh thanks a lot i'm gonna need to read

2305
01:22:53,510 --> 01:22:50,159
that one

2306
01:22:56,550 --> 01:22:53,520
yeah that's uh i said i actually got

2307
01:22:58,709 --> 01:22:56,560
two of them i sent one to um to sean if

2308
01:23:00,950 --> 01:22:58,719
i get it back from my son

2309
01:23:02,470 --> 01:23:00,960
yeah that's a that's a great book it

2310
01:23:06,550 --> 01:23:02,480
really is it is cool

2311
01:23:08,070 --> 01:23:06,560
it's really cool yeah so well i think

2312
01:23:10,149 --> 01:23:08,080
i think we're going to be about finish

2313
01:23:13,030 --> 01:23:10,159
for tonight and um

2314
01:23:13,510 --> 01:23:13,040
anyway hey nick thanks for joining us

2315
01:23:15,350 --> 01:23:13,520
again

2316
01:23:17,430 --> 01:23:15,360
you know i it's great to have you on

2317
01:23:20,070 --> 01:23:17,440
here i i know our listeners

2318
01:23:21,750 --> 01:23:20,080
had a good time yeah i i know our

2319
01:23:23,430 --> 01:23:21,760
listeners love having you on and

2320
01:23:24,950 --> 01:23:23,440
uh we got a lot of i get a lot of good

2321
01:23:27,270 --> 01:23:24,960
response from uh

2322
01:23:27,990 --> 01:23:27,280
when you come and join us and of course

2323
01:23:30,310 --> 01:23:28,000
you know

2324
01:23:31,990 --> 01:23:30,320
you're a writing machine so you're gonna

2325
01:23:33,910 --> 01:23:32,000
have to look at that and

2326
01:23:35,590 --> 01:23:33,920
it's always a fascinating subject

2327
01:23:38,470 --> 01:23:35,600
whatever it is

2328
01:23:39,030 --> 01:23:38,480
and uh i for one really appreciate it i

2329
01:23:40,790 --> 01:23:39,040
uh

2330
01:23:42,470 --> 01:23:40,800
it does like i said before it does give

2331
01:23:44,870 --> 01:23:42,480
me a point of reference

2332
01:23:46,310 --> 01:23:44,880
for uh we're not only thinking about

2333
01:23:49,590 --> 01:23:46,320
these things but then

2334
01:23:52,629 --> 01:23:49,600
digging into something further and uh

2335
01:23:54,390 --> 01:23:52,639
you know placing it for my readers so i

2336
01:23:57,990 --> 01:23:54,400
do appreciate it

2337
01:24:00,149 --> 01:23:58,000
oh cool so

2338
01:24:01,990 --> 01:24:00,159
you guys got anything else no thanks for

2339
01:24:03,430 --> 01:24:02,000
joining us nick was a lot of fun and

2340
01:24:04,950 --> 01:24:03,440
entertaining us on some of these

2341
01:24:06,070 --> 01:24:04,960
subjects we're not quite too

2342
01:24:08,550 --> 01:24:06,080
knowledgeable on

2343
01:24:09,110 --> 01:24:08,560
but as always you seem to expand our

2344
01:24:10,709 --> 01:24:09,120
minds

2345
01:24:11,990 --> 01:24:10,719
with this good stuff so keep it coming

2346
01:24:13,669 --> 01:24:12,000
man we look forward to having you back

2347
01:24:15,110 --> 01:24:13,679
on the program again

2348
01:24:16,709 --> 01:24:15,120
oh thanks and thanks stephanie on the

2349
01:24:19,030 --> 01:24:16,719
show again

2350
01:24:19,830 --> 01:24:19,040
great having you on all right cool

2351
01:24:24,149 --> 01:24:19,840
thanks a lot

2352
01:24:26,470 --> 01:24:24,159
all right thank you now see you later

2353
01:24:27,990 --> 01:24:26,480
nick redfern folks great to be joined by

2354
01:24:29,510 --> 01:24:28,000
nick good program

2355
01:24:31,590 --> 01:24:29,520
there i lost my train of thought right

2356
01:24:35,189 --> 01:24:31,600
at the beginning lon when the

2357
01:24:37,270 --> 01:24:35,199
board went wonky on me but uh we're back

2358
01:24:38,709 --> 01:24:37,280
we got it we had a bit of a lull there

2359
01:24:40,870 --> 01:24:38,719
but you know that was a nice

2360
01:24:42,149 --> 01:24:40,880
little segway to you hey lon you see i

2361
01:24:46,550 --> 01:24:42,159
tell you

2362
01:24:47,910 --> 01:24:46,560
i didn't uh you know this one in black i

2363
01:24:50,070 --> 01:24:47,920
there were some pretty strange things

2364
01:24:51,910 --> 01:24:50,080
there i uh you know i've heard

2365
01:24:55,270 --> 01:24:51,920
references to a lot of it

2366
01:24:56,950 --> 01:24:55,280
but not to the way he explained it and

2367
01:24:59,030 --> 01:24:56,960
then you know he put the

2368
01:25:00,790 --> 01:24:59,040
he put a lot of people in their head

2369
01:25:02,149 --> 01:25:00,800
well just like mac tony's

2370
01:25:04,070 --> 01:25:02,159
you know what you you know matt telling

2371
01:25:06,229 --> 01:25:04,080
his crypto terrestrials

2372
01:25:07,350 --> 01:25:06,239
that's a book i recommend to anybody

2373
01:25:10,950 --> 01:25:07,360
everybody it's

2374
01:25:13,270 --> 01:25:10,960
it is a fantastic it's a lot of theory

2375
01:25:15,270 --> 01:25:13,280
like everything else we write about but

2376
01:25:18,390 --> 01:25:15,280
i'm telling you he

2377
01:25:20,310 --> 01:25:18,400
he really did put a lot into that book

2378
01:25:23,030 --> 01:25:20,320
and it's a lot for people think about

2379
01:25:23,830 --> 01:25:23,040
and i'm glad nick referenced it in his

2380
01:25:26,390 --> 01:25:23,840
book it's

2381
01:25:27,990 --> 01:25:26,400
uh it gives you a lot to think about it

2382
01:25:31,110 --> 01:25:28,000
really really does and i

2383
01:25:32,709 --> 01:25:31,120
i highly recommend it and uh like always

2384
01:25:35,830 --> 01:25:32,719
i highly recommend

2385
01:25:38,709 --> 01:25:35,840
nick's books whatever you write i mean

2386
01:25:40,470 --> 01:25:38,719
it's always interesting um you know i

2387
01:25:43,270 --> 01:25:40,480
had a lot of people ask me

2388
01:25:45,750 --> 01:25:43,280
uh why we don't do a halloween special

2389
01:25:48,310 --> 01:25:45,760
and i think it's because

2390
01:25:50,149 --> 01:25:48,320
uh one every week is weird enough for us

2391
01:25:52,629 --> 01:25:50,159
that we don't have to do just

2392
01:25:53,270 --> 01:25:52,639
yeah one one special day and that's not

2393
01:25:55,669 --> 01:25:53,280
really us

2394
01:25:57,830 --> 01:25:55,679
you know i think i enjoy the commercial

2395
01:25:58,470 --> 01:25:57,840
aspect of it and the scary stories and

2396
01:26:01,590 --> 01:25:58,480
the

2397
01:26:03,350 --> 01:26:01,600
think you

2398
01:26:04,629 --> 01:26:03,360
you really appreciate the traditional

2399
01:26:07,030 --> 01:26:04,639
aspect of it and

2400
01:26:07,990 --> 01:26:07,040
i don't know i don't think we need to

2401
01:26:10,070 --> 01:26:08,000
you know

2402
01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:10,080
cheapen the holiday with a special of

2403
01:26:14,070 --> 01:26:12,000
our own what do you think

2404
01:26:15,990 --> 01:26:14,080
well when we get when we get guests like

2405
01:26:17,910 --> 01:26:16,000
nick redfern around halloween

2406
01:26:19,510 --> 01:26:17,920
who needs a halloween show yeah i don't

2407
01:26:20,070 --> 01:26:19,520
know we used to call it shocktober back

2408
01:26:22,070 --> 01:26:20,080
in the day

2409
01:26:24,310 --> 01:26:22,080
yeah we did it we do it all the time i

2410
01:26:26,229 --> 01:26:24,320
mean and that's what it is so no folks

2411
01:26:27,030 --> 01:26:26,239
unfortunately no halloween special from

2412
01:26:30,149 --> 01:26:27,040
us

2413
01:26:32,709 --> 01:26:30,159
you're

2414
01:26:35,030 --> 01:26:32,719
listening to arcane radio i think lon

2415
01:26:36,790 --> 01:26:35,040
lon lives it every day so i don't think

2416
01:26:39,350 --> 01:26:36,800
i do live it every day

2417
01:26:40,229 --> 01:26:39,360
if i want to or even if i don't want to

2418
01:26:42,390 --> 01:26:40,239
i've got uh

2419
01:26:43,990 --> 01:26:42,400
i've got something pulling pictures off

2420
01:26:47,189 --> 01:26:44,000
my walls in this house now

2421
01:26:48,790 --> 01:26:47,199
no nice uh i was talking to brett about

2422
01:26:50,229 --> 01:26:48,800
it the other day and she was kind of

2423
01:26:51,669 --> 01:26:50,239
laughing at me

2424
01:26:53,750 --> 01:26:51,679
and she told me they said well you got

2425
01:26:57,030 --> 01:26:53,760
you know you got a little girl

2426
01:26:57,910 --> 01:26:57,040
in in the the stairwell i said well no i

2427
01:26:59,750 --> 01:26:57,920
didn't know that

2428
01:27:02,390 --> 01:26:59,760
but now you do thanks for telling me but

2429
01:27:04,070 --> 01:27:02,400
you know you did say to me in the past

2430
01:27:06,709 --> 01:27:04,080
that you thought you felt the presence

2431
01:27:08,229 --> 01:27:06,719
of a little girl yeah there that i

2432
01:27:11,270 --> 01:27:08,239
thought something was in here

2433
01:27:14,629 --> 01:27:11,280
it it wasn't it wasn't an entity or

2434
01:27:16,070 --> 01:27:14,639
spirit energy that i was familiar with

2435
01:27:18,070 --> 01:27:16,080
it had to have been from

2436
01:27:19,510 --> 01:27:18,080
some other time before the house was

2437
01:27:21,350 --> 01:27:19,520
built because

2438
01:27:23,030 --> 01:27:21,360
i knew of everything that was you know

2439
01:27:24,470 --> 01:27:23,040
everybody who had lived here been part

2440
01:27:28,390 --> 01:27:24,480
of this place

2441
01:27:31,990 --> 01:27:28,400
uh but it's it's pretty

2442
01:27:33,669 --> 01:27:32,000
it it's interesting i mean i've been you

2443
01:27:34,070 --> 01:27:33,679
know i've been sensing some things but

2444
01:27:35,750 --> 01:27:34,080
when

2445
01:27:37,750 --> 01:27:35,760
pictures start come flying off the wall

2446
01:27:40,550 --> 01:27:37,760
you know something's around yeah it is

2447
01:27:41,669 --> 01:27:40,560
that's you just keep that to yourself

2448
01:27:44,629 --> 01:27:41,679
don't be sharing that

2449
01:27:46,950 --> 01:27:44,639
tonight now we well speaking of psychic

2450
01:27:48,390 --> 01:27:46,960
mediums next week we have joan lundgren

2451
01:27:51,030 --> 01:27:48,400
on with us

2452
01:27:52,310 --> 01:27:51,040
he's a psychic medium uh animal

2453
01:27:58,950 --> 01:27:52,320
communicator

2454
01:28:02,390 --> 01:27:58,960
he or nurse and an international author

2455
01:28:04,310 --> 01:28:02,400
so she'll be joining us next week i hope

2456
01:28:06,390 --> 01:28:04,320
i can join you next week i've got

2457
01:28:09,430 --> 01:28:06,400
surgery that same day

2458
01:28:10,870 --> 01:28:09,440
in the afternoon it's nothing major but

2459
01:28:13,030 --> 01:28:10,880
uh you're not getting the sex change

2460
01:28:16,870 --> 01:28:13,040
this week no

2461
01:28:19,030 --> 01:28:16,880
okay uh i'm going beyond that anyway my

2462
01:28:22,470 --> 01:28:19,040
friend

2463
01:28:23,830 --> 01:28:22,480
uh i i think i'll be i think i'll be

2464
01:28:25,270 --> 01:28:23,840
okay so i'm just

2465
01:28:27,430 --> 01:28:25,280
putting that out there not to be

2466
01:28:29,590 --> 01:28:27,440
confused with the former host of good

2467
01:28:32,229 --> 01:28:29,600
morning america

2468
01:28:34,950 --> 01:28:32,239
no it's not john london not joan no no

2469
01:28:37,350 --> 01:28:34,960
no i just wanted to clarify that so

2470
01:28:38,790 --> 01:28:37,360
you never know hey we have a wide

2471
01:28:41,189 --> 01:28:38,800
audience

2472
01:28:42,950 --> 01:28:41,199
much wider than i ever thought thanks

2473
01:28:46,629 --> 01:28:42,960
for joining us again

2474
01:28:49,669 --> 01:28:46,639
and uh we'll be back here next week with

2475
01:28:51,110 --> 01:28:49,679
joan lundgren and uh

2476
01:28:52,870 --> 01:28:51,120
hope the whole crew will be along as

2477
01:28:53,590 --> 01:28:52,880
well so you take it easy and have a

2478
01:28:55,030 --> 01:28:53,600
great week

2479
01:28:56,629 --> 01:28:55,040
good night everybody we'll see you next

2480
01:28:57,910 --> 01:28:56,639
week sean foreign launch strickler butch